Grundsau Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I'd like to try my hand at some medieval candle holders and am trying to fgure out a way to attach the drip cup to the upright stem. Not sure yet what size material the stem will be but it may be in the 1" range or a little larger. Would rather not use any elec welding. Should I neck down a small portion of the end of the stem into a tenon, punch a hole in the drip cup and then peen the tenon over like a rivet? That should draw things up tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 How will the candles be fastened to the holder? Prickets or cups. (I would also suggest you look at more real medieval examples! That looks more Hollywood to my eye. Perhaps "Iron and Brass Implements of the English House" Seymour Lindsay) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 That would be a lot of work to get the tenon that small from the vertical piece to hold the cup. There are ways to make either a force fit rivet that just goes into a blind hole or you can use machine bolts and screw the cups on. These can be flat head screws so they are not seen, and you can super glue the threads so it doesn't come loose, or they can be made from hex heads and actually forge the head into a spike to hold the candle in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRobb Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 If the candles aren't being held on by a spike, you could drill a small hole in the cup and do a pocket weld on top of the cup down on to the stem. Then you could grind the weld smooth. ??? Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I'd like to try my hand at some medieval candle holders and am trying to fgure out a way to attach the drip cup to the upright stem. Not sure yet what size material the stem will be but it may be in the 1" range or a little larger. Would rather not use any elec welding. Should I neck down a small portion of the end of the stem into a tenon, punch a hole in the drip cup and then peen the tenon over like a rivet? That should draw things up tight. That should work fine if you are doing them as per the picture, 1" seems a little heavy, but your choice. Prickets have been mentioned, the problem there being that most church candles (UK) have a washer with the wick at their base, and tend to crack and crumble when this is hit. Good luck and enjoy whatever you decide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundsau Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Thanks for all the info. The photo was just for illustration and didn't plan to use a spIke for the candles. A pocket weld may be the way to go till I see how the design flows and then try more traditional joinery later. Seeing an example up close would help. Randy, do you know of any resources in our area where I could see his type of work? I wonder if the Novitiate in Wernersville would have something. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 You should be able to ILL the book I mentioned at your local public library---blame Ben Franklin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundsau Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Lol Great suggestion. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I don't know of any where locally except the library.I don't recall seeing any forged work inside the Noviate except the outside gates. Attached is the way I've seen them done and have done them. You make a pin. This drops in a hole in the upright. The pin drops lower than the top of the hole and then the edge of the hole is punched over the pin to hold that in place. Then the drip pan slides over the pin and the edge of the sholder of the pin is punched down over the pan to hold it in place. This can have the spike to hold the candle holder or not. I've even worked on gates from the early 1800's that had blind rivets like this to hold scrolls to the bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundsau Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Interesting way of doing that. Thanks for the illustration and info. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Another way of fixing is:(sorry for the metric terminology) take a 5mm wire nail and cut it short below the head say 15mm long and drill a 2mm hole into the bottom of it say 6mm deep. then put a 2.4mm x 5 panel pin into the hole invert and hammer down into a 15 mm deep 5mm dia hole drilled into the base. when the panel pin bottoms it is forced up into the nail expanding it forming a blind rivet and a very secure fix. If you can get them those blue tacks are dirt cheap hard as nails(ha, ha)make great expantion wedges. It is also worth remembering that lots of the old work was just soldered. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Or forge brazed! (and of course a lot of the old real wrought iron work was forge welded in places we often wouldn't even consider it for mild steel!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 There are many great books out there with photos of medieval work one of my favorite reference books is Decorative antique ironwork by henry d'allemagne ISBN 0-486-22082-6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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