silkhopesmith Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'm looking for recommendations for welding W-1 to mild steel. I'd like to forge the piece after welding the two together, and eventually heat treat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Low hydrogen rod (7018) at a minimum............Don't use common mig wire, it will fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 if you are going to forge it, weld it with a stainless rod, as far as heat treating, not with mild steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I don't know about stainless rod but my experience has been when a weld is forged after the fact its strength is much lower than the surrounding metal. The internal structure of the weld is like cast metal. It tends to fail when forged more than superficially. The tried and true method is forge welding for joining high carbon steel to low carbon steel. It works well and is not that hard really. You can use small tack welds to hold the steel in place. What are you tiring to make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimenickel Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 agreed ...forgeweld is good.. or i use 6010 rod to join a billet to a mild iron rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Is there a reason not to forge weld? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Just remember, when forge welding, that the high carbon stuff needs a lower welding temp than mild. If you're used to coming out with mild at "high yellow, nearly white & almost sparking", you'll be burning the W-1. Should stick good though, if you get the heat right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Placing the mild side down in the solid fuel forge during the final run up to welding temp helps protect the high C side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silkhopesmith Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 I agree, forge welding is the traditional way to approach this. Normally, I would do that, but wondered if there might be another option. The finished piece will be a heavy drawknife with a blade 19 inches long. It's the extra length that makes me wonder about alternatives. Shorter welds are much simpler. If I had a big hammer, I'd consider welding two short thick pieces and then drawing them out to finished length, but don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I'm looking for recommendations for welding W-1 to mild steel. I'd like to forge the piece after welding the two together, and eventually heat treat. it can be welded by Mig with a and is done in the NHRA all the time the prep is "Very important " to control the heat IE . the W1 is a harder steel and must be pre heated to except the weld and give proper fusion to weld to. Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 it can be welded by Mig with a and is done in the NHRA all the time the prep is "Very important " to control the heat IE . the W1 is a harder steel and must be pre heated to except the weld and give proper fusion to weld to. Sam Yeah but is it going to be forged after the fact? Tool forging is not metal fabrication. There are different conditions and results required. One could fabricate a draw knife it seems like much more work than forging one. You could bevel a thin strip of steel and a strip of mild steel then tig or mig weld them together for full penetration on both sides then grind it smooth. But a skilled smith will be done way before the welder is and will have better more reliable results. Also who knows how it will hold up after it is heat treated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Budd Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 normally I would just say make the drawknife out of a single piece of HC steel, but if you want to use a smaller amount of the good stuff and use mild for the bulk of it, then forgewelding is definately the way to go. You could laminate the W1 to the mild top and bottomg as you look edge on to the drawknife, but that means getting a solid weld over a fairly wide area as well as the length of the blade (then you have to heat treat it without it warping!). Personally I would weld the two bits together so that the edge half of the blade is W1 and the back half (ncluding tangs) is mild. build it up like a multi bar patternwleded blade ;) It could be a bit of 1/2" square W1 of nearly 19" welded to bit of 1/2" square mild of say 26". you couod tack weld it in place or just wrap with wire before firewelding. As long as you flux it and make sure your wedls are solid before flattening and shaping the blade I'm sure you'll be fine (assuming you are happy with forge welding already). This way of arranging the steels should be a bit easier in the heat treat regarding warpage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 TIG is not prefered as the steel does not reach the proper temp . resulting in a fracture in the weld and ultiment failure in the product . as for the heattreating once welded by MIG it will work in the forge / heat treating and not fail . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I have done my share of welding mig, tig, stick, oxy/ace and forge. One can up the amperage or dwell on the puddle to get more heat with a tig weld. I have found that the internal structure of the steel is far superior on a rolled or forged bar verses one that is built up out of electric welded parts. A weld's internal structure is basically cast metal. As far as the metal reaching proper temp during the weld if there is full fusion and it is heated up to forging temp that no longer matters. Try welding w1 to mild steel then reducing the thickness by 50%. You won't like the results. The forge weld is executed in seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLMartin Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I have forged a hand full of draw knives from mild steel and W 1 tool steel. I started with a piece of 5/8"ths sq about 1 foot long. The tool steel was maybe 5/8"ths wide by 1/2" thick and 10" long. I took 4 welding heats to attach the steel. After the steel was welded I forge the bar with steel back to square, then forged the bar flat on the diamond. Doing this set the steel on the bottom and on the front half instead of the whole bottom. Handles and a tang were forged out on ether side and wood grips set on. I do this with a striker or power hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silkhopesmith Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 nice idea. how did you come up with that method? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLMartin Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 nice idea. how did you come up with that method? I did not come up with it. It is a pretty old way for forging them. I was shown be Richard Guthrie. He worked at Colonial Williams burg for a few decades. I would guess he learned it there but i have no idea if the process stated in colonial times of earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Well in "Knives and Scabbards" Museum of London they have an entire criteria for specifying blades by how the steel is welded to the wrought iron, lapped, butted, cleft, etc of course these were all medieval to renaissance blades... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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