LG 50 Brake

[don schad]

Hi,

I finished a brake for my 50# LG a while back and wanted to post the pictures for reference. It generally follows the methods put forth by the likes of Clifton Ralph and Sid S. of LittleGiant and many others, as found on the internet. It is mostly finished with a few tweaks and some cleanup remaining:
My first impression from using it was the it really increased the pressure required to depress the treadle. Without the brake, which has a return spring which is hidden in the right-side tube (where the tube is part of the spring-guard mount), the treadle was super-light to actuate the clutch. The addition of the spring gives it much more resistance, although I can fiddle with this to change the amount of pressure required (by adjusting the return spring). Initially it felt like a really large change, but now I am used to it so I don't think it is a problem. I might be able to decrease the spring pressure if I used a better brake pad - currently it is a piece of outdoor carpet. I know leather is popular but I am wondering if I should change that out with something else. The oil is a bit of a concern which the carpet seems to suck up. Regardless it does stop on a dime as currently adjusted.

I have found this to be a super addition to my hammer. It makes using tooling, both handled and those using a tool holder much easier. The ability to stop the ram at the top of the stroke makes getting tools into position a lot easier - no more rotating the flywheel by hand or feathering it up to get something in position. Chisels and punches are a lot easier for the same reason, and the ability to confidently get one hit almost always (you can end up getting multiple hits if you stop the head at the bottom of the stroke as there is still motion in slide/spring - and actually these hit a lot quicker because the motion is only the couple of inches in the spring compressing/decompressing).

Overall I'm now firmly in the "build a brake" camp. It has really increased the utility of my hammer.

don

[dsloan]

Don,

It looks good. I know Sid uses brake banding which has a fiber like surface and Phil uses nylon strapping (I think). Hopefully he will chime in. But I'm sure leather would work well and the excess oil would only help out in the grabbing power.

Welcome to the brake club.

Dave from Diller

[peacock]

I do use leather sewn to a nylon backing, it's the best I have found. Oil has every little effect on the leather. If you have not turned the OD of the crankplate your brake will need more spring pressure. I do not use a treadle return spring as such I use the spring for the brake to return the treadle. If you want to do this you should make sure to remove all the slack you can from the treadle linkage. I try to get more than half of the OD of the crankplate in contact with the brake band but half is good. I also like a small turn buckle between the band and the linkage so I can tune the brake for best function. This will let you release the brake just as the clutch engages.

P.S. If the nylon on the back of the leather is sewn on and is new nylon it will gather when sewn and cause the leather to curl back towards the backing this makes the band release from the OD of the crankplate all the way around instantly. also much easier to fit the curve than a steel backing.

[jkmas]

I have a 50lb moloch. I put a nylon strap on for a brake. I only have a tension spring (with bolt for adjustment) on the right and left side with no treadle connection.
It has just enough tension to stop the motion. The clutch lining (rear open wheel type) is new and would make the hammer free wheel too much without the brake. It work fine now.

[HWooldridge]

Brakes are not as important when the hammer is used primarily for drawing and nothing else - but are just about indispensable for tooling. Many years ago, I helped a fellow smith put a band brake on a 100 lb LG over the course of a weekend and we got to see how it handled before and after - the difference went from "kinda scary" to "well behaved".

And I think leather is best for brake linings because it is minimally affected by oil.

[don schad]

Hi all,

Thanks for the responses. I was thinking that the leather would get slick with the oil, but it sounds like this isn't the case. What thickness of leather do you use? It would seem that the thicker the better...I was considering putting 1/8 of neoprene under my lining to make it more "squishy" to counter-act the fact that my crankplate hasn't been turned. Also my brake band is a bit thicker then some of the other descriptions I have seen with people using 16g, I think mine is 1/8th, so it won't deform to the shape quite as much I guess.

Peacock - what is the leather with a nylon backing? Is it nylon strapping, or something thinner? Is the nylon's main utility in the curving back from the crankplate to make the release quicker?

Thanks for everyone's responses. I will see about upgrading to some leather.

don

[HWooldridge]

I have used 3/16-1/4" saddle leather but I have quite a bit laying around. I would think 1/8" would be minimum and it obviously needs a backing.

[peacock]

I use 1/4 inch thick leather sewn on 1 1/2" wide .110 thick nylon webbing 5,200 lb. per inch break strength. The nylon is there to keep the leather from stretching. The back tension is just one of those accidents that turns out good. I used steel backing first but this takes less time and troube to make. I sew it up in pieces as long as the hide will yeild then just cut off what I need.

[don schad]

I understand now - it wasn't clear to me that the nylon was the backing, I was thinking that it was leather + nylon + steel backing.

I will give the leather a try a somepoint down the road.

Thanks to all for the suggestions and advice.

don

[SmoothBore]

When I worked in the Wire & Cable business, we made literally hundreds of brake bands, ... that were used to put tension on spools of wire, as they were un-coiled, and/or re-wound.

( The weight of these spools ranged from less than 100# empty, ... to over 600# when full. )

Steel strapping, of #18 or #20 gauge, used as backing for 1/8" to 1/4" thick Teflon sheet goods, ... cut into appropriate width strips, ... gave the best service.


.

[iron quake]

I'm going to add a brake to my 100lb LG I've been restoring the last few weeks. What are the thoughts on using UHMW bonded and screwed to a metal strap? Do you think the CF will be to low? I'm going to grind the outside of the fly wheel today to true it up some and get the lumps off prior to putting the front end parts back on.

[peacock]

UHMW is a bearing material, don't think you would want to use that. I have built about 35 power hammer brakes and you just can't do better than leather in my experience. If you are not going to turn the flywheel in a lathe Do not use a steel backing use nylon strap ( seat belt material) so it can conform to the O D of the flywheel. I know you said you were going to grind it, I have seen that tried many times with limited results, Depends on how much patience and time you have.

[iron quake]

Well peacock you are correct I got the lumps off and that is about it. The run out is way to much to remove grinding. I'll use leather and a length of nylon snatch strap. I see you have them sewen together. How do you secure the ends to the metal parts? I was thinking about machining a through bolt pinch clamp kind of part. I can purchace 3/16" thick leather from McMaster is that thick enough?

As a side note I got the rest of my parts back from Sid at LG today, that dude is a class act. There is no way I would have been able to undertake this rebuild without his help.

I also can't overstate the help several of you on this site have been also, Thank You.

[peacock]

I make both end conection by riveting a steel end on the strap with copper harness rivets. I use 11 ga. steel, drill 2 holes for rivets one for the attchment bolt or pin. 3/16 leather is fine. Check your local farm store or saddle shop for a piece of leather. Girth tie straps straps are made from latigo leather and will work nicely. If it is a saddle repair they may be able to do the sewing for you. If not I could be persauded to help you.

[iron quake]

Thanks Peacock I see the need for a brake for sure.

[iron quake]

Peacock can you tell me about how much spring force is required for the brake? When I use my hand applied to the flywheel to stop the free wheel it seems like very little force is required to stop the rotation, but I can't really quantify that. Any Idea would be a big help to me thanks. The nylon strap you use must be pretty thin, " its seat belt material". It moves away from the flywheel anyway. I would love to purchase a section from you, so I can see first hand what you are using and not reinvent the wheel.

Thanks for your help.

[peacock]

I don't use seat belt, I buy rolls of new webbing, but seat belt will work if that is all you can find. As I said in earlier post it's .110 thick. Spring tension is hard to say, too many factors involved. Maybe you should PM me.

[eric sprado]

I'm confused on the linkage guys! The linkage in the picture looks like clutch engaging direction and brake engaging are in same direction-which I know is wrong but I just am not seeing how you built linkage to grab brake when you let up on pedal. Sorry for my ignorance. I have a nice LG 25# that I'd like to add brake to. Help!!!!

[jeremy k]

.
Eric - Don's second picture in post #1 you can see that the linkage has tabs in the opposite direction (away from the hammer on the front of the rod - towards the hammer on the rear end of the rod), as the treadle is raised, the brake rod (horizontal rod) is turned clockwise (looking at the front of the hammer), which along with the helper spring that is inside the square tubing pulls down on the strap around the edge of the crank plate. The side that the solid mounted end of the brake strap is mounted, depends on the direction of the crank plate during use, the crank plate should be turning away from the solid mounted end of the strap.

[eric sprado]

Thanks Jeremy: I see that the LG25 and LG 50 linkages are different. I'm thinking a brake that comes up from the BOTTOM from an extension of the clutch lever would work on mine. Maybe a steel cradle with some leather strap or belting glued/riveted to it? The first picture of my hammer shows the yellow lever that comes up when you let off the pedal. I think I'd put the extension on the yellow arm and go UP to the flywheel?

[peacock]

Eric Here are some pics of the brake on my 25 new style. You will notice some of the parts are too long with several holes. When I first built this years ago I put all those in so I could tune it without haveing to take in apart, as it is now works best for me.

[KYBOY]

Heres the brake on our 50 pounder..

[don schad]

Peacock can you tell me about how much spring force is required for the brake?

FWIW, mine brake seemed to require a lot for force, but I expect that as I improve the brake band (improving contact, more grabby material) that I can reduce the tension...but that said, the spring is still relatively small, about 1.5" long with a 5/8 diameter, not a garage spring or anything like that. I also hooked mine to a bolt with a nut so that I can change the tension for fine tuning.

[don schad]

Thanks Jeremy: I see that the LG25 and LG 50 linkages are different. I'm thinking a brake that comes up from the BOTTOM from an extension of the clutch lever would work on mine. Maybe a steel cradle with some leather strap or belting glued/riveted to it? The first picture of my hammer shows the yellow lever that comes up when you let off the pedal. I think I'd put the extension on the yellow arm and go UP to the flywheel?

Hi Eric,

Everytime I look I see a different configuration of LG's, which I don't think are strictly related to the poundage, but more to the era in which it was built. As a result the direction in which things move might be different and the side on which things are mounted change. Depending on the setup you will need to figure out the best way to get from here-to-there in order to lift or pull and how to change the direction of the motion (i.e. downward treadle = upward brake).

In your case, using your clutch lever you will need to change the direction from down to up to get the brake released when you depress the treadle. On mine this is accomplished, as JeremyK noted, using the rod in a tube with tabs which are oriented 180degree differently. Peacock uses a different apprach with the pivot in a through-hole in the frame, but note that in the 2rd picture his arm is moving in the opposite direction yours will move, so your linkage will have to account for that. KYBoy's has yet another variation.

don