Anvil height question

[fluidsteel]

So, after a year of living with my brother I finally have my own place. I have an 8'x16' jobshack trailer that my boss gave me for my finish work and grinders. It's fully wired with heat, and lights too.
The smithy outside will be small, 12'x8' with a covered 8'x8' area that will be under an awning off the back of the trailer.

I am primarily a knife maker, but will also do ornamental iron for fun.

I have three anvils a 300# Fisher that I will be using, and a 119# Kohlswa with a 55# unknown make really old anvil.


The Fisher is too heavy to be lifting repeatedly. So, I want to get it close to the right height from the start.

My question is regarding the build of my anvil stand. I have found that the knuckle height that most anvils are set feels uncomfortable to me. I'm 6'2" but when I stand next to a 5'10" guy my knuckles are usually around the same height from the ground due to my wide wingspan. Is there another rule of thumb regarding height and ergonomics for your hip height etc? I feel like I'm stooping to forge most of the time...

I'm only over thinking this because 300# is heavy....

I won't be using too many fuller tools, guillotines etc except the random ornamental ironwork.

Does anyone else out there use a higher anvil for forging?

I imagine what I'll do, is make a stand with room to add or remove 1" plates like some stands I've seen on the Show me your Anvil Stand thread...but thought I'd ask for a few opinions.

Thanks, Brian

[pkrankow]

Try wrist height, and then build a small platform step to stand on to adjust you to the anvil. If you have a striker for a day it will be uncomfortable for the striker though, so you may want 2 platforms that can be moved about.

Phil

[Drewed]

I like my anvil higher than the standard knuckles hight. I go more for about a wrist height. You hammer should contact the anvil level and plumb. I would start with the 55lber shorter than what you want, and then throw some blocks of wood on it and smack the blocks with your hammer. Add or remove wood until you get a nice even head mark in the wood, and it feels good ( not tweaking the back or anything,) then you know your anvil face height.

[CurlyGeorge]

I agree with Phil about wrist high. I have my 250 Trenton (shop anvil) and my 150 Trenton (traveling demo anvil) both set about that height. I'm about 6" and I was the same way about stooping over. Gets to the back in a hurry. I just had to slightly adjust my hammer blows to make sure the I was hitting flat. :)

[ThomasPowers]

Most knifemakers have their anvils higher to avoid the "stoop". Can you make a trial size and then add a Layer of 2x6-8-12? until it feels "right". Yes you were trying to avoid the fuss but that's sort of like not changing your car's oil to avoid the fuss. Might work now but the fuss later will be much greater!

I have several anvils in my shop and each one is at a different height making them useful for different tasks. (I teach as well so try to have a range of heights for students)

[fluidsteel]

I think I'll go with the wrist height to start, and build my stand with a couple keepers on either side to allow the addition or removal of plates as needed.
I figured I'd have to fiddle with it, but wanted to see if I was alone in feeling stooped over when my anvils were the more traditionally suggested knuckle height.
I'll also do the striking on wood to see how square my hammer blows are.

All in all I'm just stoked to be able to set up my own shop after hanging out in my friends shops for the last year while I was moving multiple times.

I've taken lessons from a well known Bladesmith and have to say that it really taught me a ton about proper ergonomics when forging.

[pkrankow]

Do remember that as you work on different stock sizes your ideal anvil height will change. The same is true as you change hammers.

Phil

[MattBower]

Someone once told me that the knuckle high rule of thumb for anvil height was developed by industrial smiths using strikers and relatively heavy material. I can't prove that, but it makes sense to me. I, too, prefer my anvil closer to write height for working alone on relatively small stock.

[Rich Hale]

I use two anvils and they are both different in size and overall height. The larger is for thicker stock and hard hammer blows. It is also lower as I tend to bend at the knees a bit with heavy swings. The smaller is for smaller work on thinner stock and is quite a bit higher. I use it for thinner stock and finish work. I really like to adjust height by using wood as you mentioned. Wood the same thickness as you iintend to do most of your work on may be best. also hit it as hard and with the same swing as you will on steel. The dents you leave will tell you if you hammer is landing somewhere near flat, both side to side and fore and aft. however you need to make a lot of dented wood for this to be of value. A couple of hits will not do. And also keep in mind that as your forging skills and muscle memory improve your work may change a lot. The idea of adjustment later will be great then. A moveable step would not work at all for me as when I am forging I tend to use all parts of the anvil and move around alot. One last thouight. If it is on dirt it will be not only easier on your body but also easy to change height by adding or removing dirt. But then again I do not have to worry about low spots filling with rain or snow!

[fluidsteel]

Thanks for all the replies. After a year of very little forge work I know its time to put all my book knowledge to work.. I'm working on 3/4" minus gravel fill so I'm going to work to get my height where I want it and due to my ADD avoid working on a platform lest I forget and step off it in a moment of(squirrel).......
I've used a stake anvil in the past that sits up 12" or so for stuff like forging in the ricasso on my blades. I plan on using my friends 100# Bradley to forge a few hardie tools...
Luckily, I have a couple hundred pounds of forklift tine cut-offs from 1-1/2"x4" to 3"x9" so a taller post anvil can be added later..If space allows that is....

[ThomasPowers]

12x8' is a great size for knifesmithing where you want your work triangle *small*!

[fluidsteel]

12x8' is a great size for knifesmithing where you want your work triangle *small*!

True, but I keep having these visions of an array of different sized anvils set up like a drum set... and 8'x12' barely works for that. :)

[ThomasPowers]

My small forging set up is about 10x10 arranged like so: South end is a workbench with tool rack with hooks on the front edge and a 4" postvise. On top of the bench is a soapstone slab to place the propane forge on. This bench runs up close to a large timber baulk that goes N-S and is the west boundary. It has 3 anvils on it (410#, 515# and 163#), at the north end of the baulk are two stumps with the "travel anvils" on them (134# and 112#), then a gap to enter the area. North end is a workbench with a heavy post vise, 6" on it usually buried in tooling---weight helps, bridge anvil beneath it. East side is the tong and hammer rack, about 80 hammers and 30 tongs on it with a rack for hardy tools above it.

Definitely a one person work area but such a joy after working in the large project area---everything to hand!

[ironwolfforgeca]

Here,s a fast trick for fingering anvil height you need - I use a auto floor jack set anvil on it now adjust to a comfortable working
height for the person that is @ the anvil the most ! -- what you're looking for is a comfortable hammer swing AND the hammer
hits the anvil Sq flat & level :<) then measure height & make stand BE Carefull !! cause anvil is not tied down to floor jack !!!

[Ten Hammers]

Give this a try. Get one of your hammers and hold it in your extended arm (relaxed). Go to your kitchen table, counter top, desk etc. Place the hammer face on the mentioned items while the arm is relaxed. When you find the place that the hammer face is flat on the surface you will be close. This surprisingly may be your inseam length. My anvil height is roughly 33 1/2" and I have about a 33 " inseam. Right handed. Your left holds the tongs or raw stock and you (in my opinion) should have relaxed extended arm holding the stock normally. Right hand should make the full extension same way at the bottom of the blow. Steve (post above me) is ingenious in the floor jack suggestion. Like Rich said, big stuff and hard blows may be a bit lower face height. Plow anvils were a bit lower I believe. Your back will tell you I guarantee you. Stooped too low and I can't last long ( on a friends anvil for instance). Too high is loss of power. Your eyesight will be a factor as well. Stacks of wood ( plywood, masonite plate steel) to add or subtract will be helpful. Your own home may have the ideal height for starters. Good luck and have fun.

BTW my forge height is just about the same as is the swage stand and the other tooling stand. Welding table is 36". People feel more comfort in different chairs and keyboard heights.

3rd edit. I have a tooling stand. Various tooling is clamped to it. Some tooling is a bit high. I have a couple pieces of bridge plank that I can place next to the stand to raise me enough to wail pretty hard with a 3# rounding hammer. When I'm done or change tooling I just stack the plank back next to the bench. Not really a big issue to train yourself to step up to forge and down to return to the fire.