Researching leg vises 'Before Internet'

[Frank Turley]

On 7 Oct, 2011, Rob Gorrell sent iforgeiron some photos of a quite early English vise, inquiring about its worth as a fixer upper. My second purchased "colonial/post-colonial" vise was almost a twin of his. I purchased it at a big antique mall in Lexington, KY, about 25 years ago. It was the second such vise I found that had the mounting plate tenon running through a rectangular hole in the fixed leg. My first was found accidentally at an architectural salvage place in Chicago. The leg with its collar & nubbin was sticking out from under an armoir. You never know.

Where to turn to find out about these vises? I know now that Peter Ross may have had some information about that style, but I didn't know Peter at that time. Eventually, one of the books I purchased pictured that style of vise! The book is a wonderful 424 page catalog of the Dominy Craftsmen Tools now in the collection of the Henry du Pont Winterthur Museum. The book is titled "With Hammer in Hand." The author is Charles F. Hummel; 2nd printing 1973. The Dominys were furniture makers in East Hampton, NY, but they also made clocks, so the vise was part of the clock division of their workshop. The tools date from about 1760 to 1840. Finding the vise in this book confirmed my suspicions about the age of my vises. I suspected that they were quite old.

At a later time, I acquired the "Collector's Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution" by Neumann & Kravic. This is an alphabetical picture book of material culture and is well done, to my way of thinking. On page 41 is pictured the early tenoned style of vise.

That's about all I had to go on until I ran across the 'Anvil Magazine' four part series, "Restoration of Leg Vises" by James R. Melchor and Peter Ross, July, August, September, October, 2001; hard copy.The articles were helpful in understanding the old composite method of forge welding and forge brazing the tube and rings together to to make the box. The screw was a wound coil of small, square-sectioned stock that was brazed within the tube. This was the technology of that time. After brazing, the bell-shape of the box was lathe turned. One had to look sharply to see evidence of brass remaining from the initial brazing job.

I've said before that it is more difficult to date and name makers of leg vises than it is with anvils. I understand that Tom Latané has forged one or more small bench vises made in the old fashioned way. Tom Suter did an old fashioned leg vise rebuild which was an article printed in the New Jersey Blacksmiths Association Newsletter.

I'm an old timer and I purchased a computer in 2000 which sat on a shelf unused for about a half year. Then I got a visit from my son who calls himself a tek-head. He took a look at the computer and said, "Dad, I'm settin' you up!" Now I can google leg and post vise and find out all kinds of stuff, but I am circumspect. There's lots of uneducated guesswork and crap on the net besides the good material.

Little by little, we find out more.

[Glenn Gilmore]

There's lots of uneducated guesswork and crap on the net besides the good material.
Wise words from a very knowledgeable smith. Frank has been around the block a few times.

[njanvilman]

I have seven of the early post vises you describe. All through tenons, pins and wedges. The biggest is perhaps a 4". A few years ago, Peter Ross stopped by my museum and after a quick look at the anvils, spent the next half hour studying the vises. If he had more time, I am sure that he could have spent all day.

None have any ID on them. And they all work fine. All were random finds around the northeast at auctions, flea markets and yes, blacksmith gatherings. None were expensive. I think the most I paid was around $50.

[Frank Turley]

nj. Thanks for that info. When will I be in New Jersey?

I got one interesting, tenoned vise from eBay. I could see on the photos that It's jaw shape was a little different that the British style. Also, it had side plates which obscured the spring. I dropped the seller a note inquiring whether there was a spring hidden within the plates, and he said, "No." I thought, "What the hey; I'm going to get the vise anyway." When it arrived, it did have the spring and all parts were intact. I was convinced that it was a German vise, because its conformation was like present day German leg vises (google 'schmied schraubstock; images). The German vises have a small projecting "anvil" off the fixed leg, jaw. The vise was small and the leg was not all that lengthy.

Through Tom Turtzo, who was associated with the reconstructed Moravian Smithy in Bethlehem, PA, I sold it for display in the smithy which was originally built in the 1750-1760 period.

[njanvilman]

Thanks for that info. When will I be in New Jersey?

Frank Turley

It would be an honor if you ever made it to this side of the country and could spent some time here. You are always welcome to visit and stay as long as you want. I know I met you (I think) at the two Flagstaff events. Anyone who visits here had better budget at least 4 hours or more. Yes, there is a lot of neat stuff here.

I also sell live Christmas trees that I grow on my farm from Thanksgiving on, during the weekends. Anyone can get a tree, and have a look around. I am just not available to give a guided tour.

[ThomasPowers]

Frank will you be at the December SWABA meeting? I still want to show you that 3" tenoned post vise I picked up at Quad-State in 2010! (It was a good year for me and vises that Q-S, I picked up a good condition 6" vise for $50 and the 3" vise was about $25 IIRC, may have been $20)

[Frank Turley]

Frank will you be at the December SWABA meeting? I still want to show you that 3" tenoned post vise I picked up at Quad-State in 2010! (It was a good year for me and vises that Q-S, I picked up a good condition 6" vise for $50 and the 3" vise was about $25 IIRC, may have been $20)

Yes, the good lord willin' and the cricks don't rise, and weather permitting. I might bring a couple of my ole vises down.

[Frank Turley]

On 7 Oct, 2011, Rob Gorrell sent iforgeiron some photos of a quite early English vise, inquiring about its worth as a fixer upper. My second purchased "colonial/post-colonial" vise was almost a twin of his. I purchased it at a big antique mall in Lexington, KY, about 25 years ago. It was the second such vise I found that had the mounting plate tenon running through a rectangular hole in the fixed leg. My first was found accidentally at an architectural salvage place in Chicago. The leg with its collar & nubbin was sticking out from under an armoir. You never know.

Where to turn to find out about these vises? I know now that Peter Ross may have had some information about that style, but I didn't know Peter at that time. Eventually, one of the books I purchased pictured that style of vise! The book is a wonderful 424 page catalog of the Dominy Craftsmen Tools now in the collection of the Henry du Pont Winterthur Museum. The book is titled "With Hammer in Hand." The author is Charles F. Hummel; 2nd printing 1973. The Dominys were furniture makers in East Hampton, NY, but they also made clocks, so the vise was part of the clock division of their workshop. The tools date from about 1760 to 1840. Finding the vise in this book confirmed my suspicions about the age of my vises. I suspected that they were quite old.

At a later time, I acquired the "Collector's Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution" by Neumann & Kravic. This is an alphabetical picture book of material culture and is well done, to my way of thinking. On page 41 is pictured the early tenoned style of vise.

That's about all I had to go on until I ran across the 'Anvil Magazine' four part series, "Restoration of Leg Vises" by James R. Melchor and Peter Ross, July, August, September, October, 2001; hard copy.The articles were helpful in understanding the old composite method of forge welding and forge brazing the tube and rings together to to make the box. The screw was a wound coil of small, square-sectioned stock that was brazed within the tube. This was the technology of that time. After brazing, the bell-shape of the box was lathe turned. One had to look sharply to see evidence of brass remaining from the initial brazing job.

I've said before that it is more difficult to date and name makers of leg vises than it is with anvils. I understand that Tom Latané has forged one or more small bench vises made in the old fashioned way. Tom Suter did an old fashioned leg vise rebuild which was an article printed in the New Jersey Blacksmiths Association Newsletter.

I'm an old timer and I purchased a computer in 2000 which sat on a shelf unused for about a half year. Then I got a visit from my son who calls himself a tek-head. He took a look at the computer and said, "Dad, I'm settin' you up!" Now I can google leg and post vise and find out all kinds of stuff, but I am circumspect. There's lots of uneducated guesswork and crap on the net besides the good material.

Little by little, we find out more.

Addendum.
Before Internet. Frank Turley again. I forgot to mention that I did run across some of the composite, leg vise construction techniques in drawings published by Denis Diderot in his 18th century "Encyclopedie." The illustrations were helpful, but I didn't understand the brazing business at the time.

[ThomasPowers]

Diderot is one of my heroes! I've always wanted a complete set of "his" encyclopedia to go along with my copies of De Re Metallica, Pirotechnia, Divers Arts and Sources for the History of the Science of Steel.

Frank, I'll bring that small vise I picked up at Q-S in 2010 to get your read out on it: tanged, brazed screwbox---brazed from a bunch of pieces, small. I may be using it at the Festival of the Cranes; but I'd prefer one of the larger robust ones as I may get some students with more brawn than brains...

[Frank Turley]

Diderot is one of my heroes! I've always wanted a complete set of "his" encyclopedia to go along with my copies of De Re Metallica, Pirotechnia, Divers Arts and Sources for the History of the Science of Steel. Frank, I'll bring that small vise I picked up at Q-S in 2010 to get your read out on it: tanged, brazed screwbox---brazed from a bunch of pieces, small. I may be using it at the Festival of the Cranes; but I'd prefer one of the larger robust ones as I may get some students with more brawn than brains...

Dover Publications Inc, 31 East 2nd Street, Mineola, NY 11501-3582, has listed in their recent catalog, "The Architectural Plates from the "Encyclopedie," by Denis Diderot. I just sent for mine @ $13.95 plus $6.95 S&H for the one book. Postage varies depending on purchase. Catalog # 0-486-27954-5. The book has 128pp. and includes scenes from building trades.

[ThomasPowers]

Yup I keep find excerpts from it but what I want is the whole shebang!

Thomas