Thissideup Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Hello all, I'm new here. found this site off youtube of all places. I'm getting married in Feb and would like to make my wedding band. I started out thinking of meteorite, then damascus, but seems I have decided I like mokume the best. So today I did a little test, I have a set of propane demolition torches, and a 30 ton press, we took a few loonies ( $1 canadian coin ) and stacked them, ( composition 87.5 % pure nickel with 8.5% bronze plating.) heated them white hot and then pressed them, they seemed at first to have stuck together but upon re heating and hammering they started to come apart and get brittle. Now obviously I have no clue what I'm doing but am wondering if the pure nickel has anything to do with it? more likely my torches are no substitute for a forge? every thing I read about mokume with nickel is nickel silver, wonder if that matters? I'm going to keep reading and see what I can learn, think I might try again tomorrow with a copper penny in between the loonies to see what happens. also will try quenching, didnt know it helps keep these metals soft until tonight. Any direction would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 You should have pickled them first to clean them and then use a flux. Any contaminate, oxide or scale will prevent fusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thissideup Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 So I pickle in muratic or ph down, rinse, mix borax with water to make a paste, paint on between layers, heat and press? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Lousy repeat posting bug. If the text is gray, check if you posted. For US quarters a vinegar soak for a couple hours is all I did, and it worked. I did use boric acid since that is a lower temperature flux than borax. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 A press is really good to use. I have used american quarters and nickels with good success. Be sure your pennies don't have zinc, they will not work if they have any. With a billet of quarters I have never been able to anneal and then forge cold, but if I keep color in a solid billet it moves fine, but slowly. I suggest doing it hot and slow (That's what she said) Also best to not hit directly on the edges until the stack has really been consolidated, normallizing helps as well. One thing to consider with a daily wear ring is the problem of nickel allergies, they are pretty commonand can come on suddenly in people that have never shown any signs. I would consider a clear coat of some kind to try and isolate the metal from the skin. Good luck on the upcoming wedding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Oh and also be sure the billet soaks in the heat long enough, easy to melt the outside and still have a hard core. Our Nickels are very high nickel as well and they work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 So I pickle in muratic or ph down, rinse, mix borax with water to make a paste, paint on between layers, heat and press? I've only done quarter mokume a couple times, and I just degreased with alcohol, then applied flux paste. Most of mine were clean and new, and on this I didn't bother with a more aggressive cleaning. I may have taken a Cratex wheel in a Dremel clone to one or two that needed it, prior to degreasing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I've only done quarter mokume a couple times, and I just degreased with alcohol, then applied flux paste. Most of mine were clean and new, and on this I didn't bother with a more aggressive cleaning. I may have taken a Cratex wheel in a Dremel clone to one or two that needed it, prior to degreasing. I have found coins to be extremly tolerant of crud on the surface. I just use the shiny ones straight without any prep other than to wipe them down with a rag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thissideup Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 made it stick! pics are a little fuzzy though, used five loonies, a copper penny, some copper tubing and a brass fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I get the gist of the fuzzy pictures. Very nicely done. BTW if your camera has a macro setting (symbol is a tulip flower) that will help with close in detail. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thissideup Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Here's a better pic, was using my phone for the others, pattern is basic, didnt want to twist it up as i wasnt sure it was stuck, will get a little crazier on the next one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Cool, glad you got it to work. You are fortunate with the brass the zinc in it can hurt you, so be careful. Bet your girl will be happy to get that ring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciladog Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Hay Thissideup, Are you pulling our leg here? This can’t be the first ring you have ever made can it? And it’s only the second time you attempted to make mokume. It’s a beautiful ring but I’m having trouble getting my brain around how you made it. You used five loonies, a copper penny, some copper tubing and a brass fitting. It looks like you fused the stack together and then cut out the ring. Did you open up and flatten the tubing and fitting first? Please explain how the ring was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thissideup Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 I melted the tubing into puddles then hammered them out, same with the brass fitting, brass was a XXXXX because it just wants to crack. stacked them up in a sandwich between two plates of steel and heated it with a tiger torch. once it got orange I sprinkled borax on it and heated again. once I could see the edges of the coins start to liquify I ran to the press and gave it the squeeze. came out with a place about 1/4 thick, then drilled the center with a step bit, made an arbor for my drill press out of a bolt and some electrical tape, put the ring over that and turned down the outside with a grinder and a flap wheel. final rounding was done with a metal file and sand paper, then a buffing wheel finished the deal. from start to finish took about five hours. I'm amazed at how strong it is for how thin I made the band, Just hope it dont crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciladog Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Well you da man, that is a beautiful ring for someone who just learned the craft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 The part about melting the copper to puddles surprises me; copper generally doesn't behave very well when it's molten. Regardless, though, that's nice work, and I love the fact that you were able to make it work with what you had. The only reservation I have about using this piece as a wedding bands is that copper alloys generally don't make great jewelry; they turn your skin green. (I made a quarter mokume cross for my second oldest, and she complained about that.) Do you have a plan for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian.pierson Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I would suggest some sterling silver to line the inside of the ring and bring it out the side a bit. You can get silver solder from some place like www.riogrande.com and they sell sheet silver also. Depending on your intended's body chemistry you might need gold, as silver can leave a black instead of green ring around her finger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thissideup Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 The part about melting the copper to puddles surprises me; copper generally doesn't behave very well when it's molten. Regardless, though, that's nice work, and I love the fact that you were able to make it work with what you had. The only reservation I have about using this piece as a wedding bands is that copper alloys generally don't make great jewelry; they turn your skin green. (I made a quarter mokume cross for my second oldest, and she complained about that.) Do you have a plan for that? I found the pennies didn't melt as nice, but the tubing melted real nice, pooled almost like lead. Then solidified almost instantly with a skin almost like a mig weld puddle.The brass would pop and crackel a bit so I sprinkled some borax on it and it seemed to behave more like the copper. As for my ring, I'm just experimenting right now, not certain what the composition of the wedding band will be, but I most likely wont have copper in it, might be nickel and brass, or nickel and silver, might even try some stainless steel damascus. I made this ring as an experiment to see if I have any issues with any of these metals, heard of nickel alergies, so will wear it for a few months to see if anything happens. The ring will be for me, little lady wants a gold band. If i can find some poor sucker in need of cash I might try buy some gold for pennies on the dollar. She's got a couple rings from her previous marrige but we both figure that'd be bad luck, actually she thinks It's bad luck and I am told I have to agree. I'm told alot of things ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thissideup Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 also built a forge today, will post again in the appropriate section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elemental Metal Creations Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 If you can find a reputable coin shop sell the old rings and use the money to help buy some fresh gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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