TomN Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Greetings all. I'm a Scientist from Oxfordshire in the UK, and looking to get out of science and into a career I will enjoy. I would love to become a blacksmith, as its something i've always liked the sound of doing. I'd consider it a 'real mans job'. I love making things with my hands and working mainly alone, so the work would be perfect for me. My other choice is to go into forrestry work, or tree surgery. My main concern is whether I will be able to make a career out of blacksmithing work, as my wife doesn't earn a lot and I need to be the main bread winner for the family. Luckily I have no kids at the moment and no mortgage, so if I am going to change my career I have to do it soon (just turned 30). I was wondering if it would be possible to start up as a blacksmith, either working for someone, or starting as a total newbie, with no prior experience, but a lot of enthusiasm? I'm physically fit and relatively strong, being a weighlifting rugby player so I think I would be able to deal with the stresses of the job. Any advice people can give me on the job, i'd be very appreciative! Advice on topics such as books to read, making a career out of forgery, ways to diversify if I took it up, general tips and advice. Any and all help basically! Hah. Sorry for the long read guys. Look forward to some replies! Cheers, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Hi Tom, Welcome to the site, all things are possible, and there are people that have done exactly what you are trying to achieve. It is not an easy road to take, and some get there quicker than others. My suggestion would be to start off as a hobby, then you can decide if it is for you, go to a course or two rather than trying to learn on your own, the time saved is invaluable, you will also get to talk to other's and listen to their experiences. If you go to www.blacksmithsguild.com we may have something there that could be of use for you. The Guild is represented at the Thame show and if you have attended there you will see the quality of work on show that our members produce and sell at the show (at minimum cost to themselves) The sales and potential for sales in the area is very good and so there is potential there to make a success of becoming a smith. If Beth on this site comes in on this thread she too may have some advice for you as her husband is a tree surgeon whilst Beth does the blacksmith bit. Good luck in your choice, and if we can help please feel free to ask, no question is too simple, most have been asked before, but you can also learn a lot from browsing the site before asking questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 im right on your tail john! hi tom - i would agree with john completely that lots of people are doing what youre describing and getting along pretty good. to earn good money youd need to get on top of a nice fat wad of skills - i did not do proper courses until later on (johns at the guild are excellent and a lot of fun) if i had started by doing that instead of faffing about on my own i would be a lot further on now in terms of proper skills.! and sales i daresay. also i think it can be hard to get jobs that are going to let you get your teeth into some real beautiful techniques, certainly at first , becasue they just take too long and people are not going to pay. like john said - the potential is certainly there though, but you really want to see if you love it enough i guess? also as your bound to know, you can come up against the fact that many people cant tell the difference between a properly forged handmade item (and certainly cant equate the value) and a cheap piece of machined thrown together rubbish. obviously the customers are out there but theyre not exactly the Majority!! which can be a bit disheartening, but any self employed job has those days!i would say like john did that you should go to a few courses - some of the guilds taster days are free! and see what you think. from my point of view is slightly different i am not the main wage earner (thank god! we would not eat!!) and certainly not what you would call a successful proffessional blacksmith!! i am very much in the learning process.... but i would imagine the tree work might poss be a better 'earner' initially...( i know a treework firm up near you actually - dont know if they need anyone - although you need tickets for half a dozen things for that even now.. there s the whole issue of if you want to be self employed or work for someone - self employed tree surgeon is harder cos eventually you are going to want to stop climbing, then you need to employ someone yourself and your into a whole other ball game. blacksmith you could manage on your own...my husband now hires machinery out rather than cutting the trees, you tend to need big tree gangs for any of the commercial work and its a bit of a drag/commitment! ) it all depends why you want to do it i suppose - if you just LOVE it and desperately want to give it a go , then i would, absolutely, but if your in a few minds, i would do some taster seshions and check it out - might not be what you think,i choose to learn this stuff becasue i have ultimate respect for the craft - really - theres just so much cool stuff involved and the material is wonderful and the whole thing is elemental and Real! and i want to leave this earth with some real skills that mean something! and in the meantime i make all kinds of fairly boring stuff for money to justify my learning! its slightly different for you if you have to bring in some serious cash... definately look up the guild website - i am going to the october course - you would get a good idea about what its all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 Thanks for the info and links guys. Much appreciated! I checked up on blacksmiths guild and all there courses for the rest of the year for beginners are booked up. I think i've decided to stick in science for a while and start off blacksmithing as a hobby until i've gained enough skills where I could either get a job, or start off my own business. I'm not a money driven person, and as long as I can earn around what I am now, which is less than £25K I will be happy. To this end, could you guys let me know of any other courses I could attend? I would also like to know what would be good to get as a set of kit to start with and also what books or online material would be worth reading for me? Thanks a lot for your help. It is much appreciated! Beth - Your presumably not too far away from me, being in the next county along. If you want a helper one day, then i'd be happy to help, as long as i'm learning something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Thanks for the info and links guys. Much appreciated! I checked up on blacksmiths guild and all there courses for the rest of the year for beginners are booked up. I think i've decided to stick in science for a while and start off blacksmithing as a hobby until i've gained enough skills where I could either get a job, or start off my own business. I'm not a money driven person, and as long as I can earn around what I am now, which is less than £25K I will be happy. To this end, could you guys let me know of any other courses I could attend? I would also like to know what would be good to get as a set of kit to start with and also what books or online material would be worth reading for me? Thanks a lot for your help. It is much appreciated! Beth - Your presumably not too far away from me, being in the next county along. If you want a helper one day, then i'd be happy to help, as long as i'm learning something. A wise choice Tom, Under £25k is easily achievable despite how much work you put in. By taking a course you can decide for yourself what tools would be useful, and you would also be able to identify them should you come across any on your travels. Basic requirements are something to heat your metal, gas, or solid fuel, something to beat your metal on (solid chunk of steel will do) something to beat it with like a 2lb hammer although some recommend heavier and more specific shaped heads. something to hold your metal when heating and forging it, (tongs which fit securely) and something to manipulate your metal with such as scrolling tongs and bending forks which are your fingers for manipulating hot metal. Books, there are many free downloads from this site http://www.hct.ac.uk/Downloads/craftpublications.html what were and still are used as the UK's Blacksmith's Bible The two most useful to the beginner are The blacksmiths Craft, and Wrought Ironwork, and then have a look through Blacksmiths Illustrated Manual, and Decorative Ironwork As for courses there are many available, and are happy to take your money, It also depends on how much time as well as cash you can afford on these courses as they vary from one day to two years depending on what you want to do. I would speak with someone who has attended those courses as to their usefulness. Good luck on your quest and feel free to ask questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 tom - talking of courses, i dont have personal experience of much at all, the guild courses are great and all year round, i really recommend them, there is usually a theme for the paid courses, but john and other teachers are really flexible and will try to fit in whatever else you ask to learn in the time! which is quite something... the only other course i went on once years ago was one by pete oberon 'Up North' somewhere, the course was good and i learned some things but it did not have the flexible nature of the ones i have done at the guild. pete was a good teacher though and if your up that way its worth checking if he still runs any courses. i have had friends in the past who have been on blacksmithing courses near us, and im not sure i would jump right in there - i might be wrong but i get the impression there is a fair ammount of time spent not at the forge, but there could be alot of other stuff on those courses like design business side etc, depends what your after.. could be a bit acedemic for my taste.. as for helping - your always welcome to come into the workshop when im about but - me teaching you much - i have my doubts! i would talk alot and youd leave with a headache... i would be far happier you learning from somebody like john - he would not teach you so many bad habits!!! in all seriousness of course come on down if your near me any day, you can prob learn how NOT to set your workshop up from me and a few other no-nos (i was going to be serious wasnt i..) your welcome tom i will help where i am qualified! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 September 17th, i'm going on the blacksmith guild, one daqy basic course! Can't wait. Really quite excited by these new possabilities arrising. Beth - Where abouts in Glos are you? I live in Witney in Oxfordhsire, which is in the west of the county, so on the right side for a visit. Wife permitting of course! Time to download some of those books and get reading I think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 thats brilliant! you'll really not regret that im sure!! i live in cotswold end of glos but workshop is nearer gloucester look for shurdington - its not far from you at all - you really are welcome - wife too if she likes! we could light the fire and you could have a play about. im very pleased for you that your going down to one of those courses :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Ok, you got me. Just what does a tree surgeon do? I can see trimming, pruning, tree removal, etc but surgery? But how do you measure sap pressure, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 ha ha! glenn - no we never did anything like that at all, the surgery bit is just some poncey thing ( i can say that cos we did this work) someone decided to call it - it is indeed pruning, crown reducing, crown lifting, felling, thinning, pollarding, grinding out large stumps, all manner of remedial life stretching measures on special trees, all i ever did was be on the chainsaw ringing stuff up or on the end of a rope hopeing the chunk he was cutting off was lighter than me (it sometimes was not when we started out and i ended up off the floor a few times before we learned i anchor myself round a tree or something..) also it can be hedge laying trimming topiary maintenance - its a nice job if you like getting tired and being out in the air. lots of fun with chippers - tracked ones for by the railways with adjustable leveling tracks - COOL - cranes, huge stump grinders, cherry picker lifts, winches and general playing about! my husband knows clever stuff about root systems and damage to buildings etc, risk assessing fungi and diseases on trees but thats a right mugs game to get into although very interesting. hope that satiates your curiosity glenn - i aim to please :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Owing to the fact that you are in England, you should check out the COSIRA books on blacksmithing; they have some good information in them. Already been recommended in #5http://www.hct.ac.uk...blications.html what were and still are used as the UK's Blacksmith's Bible The two most useful to the beginner are The blacksmiths Craft, and Wrought Ironwork, and then have a look through Blacksmiths Illustrated Manual, and Decorative Ironwork All other CoSIRA books are also available from this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 Just sat in bed now reading The Blacksmith Craft. Beth - You are quite close indeed and I have been to Cheltenham many times, as my wife used to go to uni there. She might go and visit the town, as I come and see you. Need to talk to her about it though. Thanks for all the help! JohnB - So could I possibly earn around the £25K mark in a year, if I got myself set up well? Just wondering, as i'm currently trying to draw up a sort of 1 year and 5 year plan for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Funny how the English language and the English language is so different. I know about felling trees, limbing, topping, crowning, etc. Even did some grafting on fruit trees, which could be considered surgery or forge welding on trees (if the graft took) I suppose (grin). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 yes i did grafting as a happy young 'youth' working at a tree nursery - never when we did tree work as adults though - it is a little like welding! i like how the language differs on here - it makes for more educative conversations! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick maxen Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Tom, Along with all the books already mentioned, The Artist Blacksmith by Peter Parkinson is worth a read. There is also BABA which is the British Artists Blacksmith Association which might be worth joining to see what is going on around the country with regular hammer-ins being held by various members. Next year if you are still into the idea of knocking hot metal about, as they have finished for this year, are the blacksmiths competitions that are held at various county shows. There are always good displays of ironwork and the chance to see blacksmiths working. Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 Thanks a lot Mick, I shall look them up! Managed to read through all of The Blacksmiths Craft last night. Looking forward to having a go at the techniques now! Would I be able to set up a forge in my garage? Baring in mind that it is a rented house! Plus I have my gym in there at the moment as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 JohnB - So could I possibly earn around the £25K mark in a year, if I got myself set up well? Just wondering, as i'm currently trying to draw up a sort of 1 year and 5 year plan for myself. I would think you would be pushing it to get to the 25K mark in a year, but it all depends on your marketing skills rather than your blacksmithing ability. You can make the best forged items in the universe, but the reality is if you cannot get a purchaser for them, then they remain of only scrap value, might be good looking scrap, but scrap nevertheless, (but as a 'smith you can always recycle it into more scrap until it sells) We can give you access to the skills, and opportunites to attend shows and meet the public, how you use them is up to yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 I guessed that was the problem. I can deal with customers I think, and could make my own website, so thats got to help. I'm sure there are plenty of shops round here that could sell things I make, but I guess i'd need to do some detailed market research on it, to make sure i'm getting into the right markets. I've got some ideas already. Now I need to learn the skills, practice and get set up. Thanks for all the help guys. Much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ititard Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Hi Tom, You could always go down the "craft market" route as well, that's part of my plan once I'm back on-line properly. As for setting up in "rented" property, is it Social Housing or Private Sector? PM me because I've been through this already. Cheers, Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ititard Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 On September 7, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Glenn said: Funny how the English language and the English language is so different. I know about felling trees, limbing, topping, crowning, etc. Even did some grafting on fruit trees, which could be considered surgery or forge welding on trees (if the graft took) I suppose (grin). A bit like, Is American English an oxymoron? along with: Act naturally Airline food Alone together Business ethics Clearly misunderstood Computer security Definite maybe Exact estimate Extinct life Found missing Genuine imitation Good grief Government organisation Jumbo Shrimps Legally drunk Military intelligence Now, then . . . Passive aggression Peace force Plastic glasses Political science Pretty ugly Quiet riot Rap music Religious tolerance Resident alien Sanitary landfill Small crowd Soft rock State worker Sweet sorrow Terribly pleased Tight slacks Working vacation One of my all time favourites is still "Microsoft Works" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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