BM454 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 This is my first real attempt at a true damascus blade. It's a ladder pattern with 112 layers of leaf springs and band saw blades. I'm guessing it's 15n20 and 1084. I may have a nice stag horn for the handle coming this afternoon. As soon as I get it and have the time I'm going to finish it. The blade came out rather nicely or I think so anyway. I hope the rest of it does as well. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Very nice blade! I love the pattern. Why do you think one of those would be 15n20? "True Damascus" usually means Wootz. Not to take away from what you've done, just saying.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM454 Posted September 3, 2011 Author Share Posted September 3, 2011 Thank you Just going on what I've seen on here. It may not be (true damascus) but, I like it I'm new pat the pattern welded blades. I've done one or two with cable and one small blade with banding and saw blades. Nothing on this scale so far though. I'll get better with time. Well I hope so anyway LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 thats so pretty - i love that you guys have the patience to make this kind of stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 looks nice not I am not sure where you get the idea about metal type, while 15N20 is commonly used for band saw blade, 1084 is not often used for leaf springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 15N20 is commonly used for band saw blade Really? Learned something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM454 Posted September 3, 2011 Author Share Posted September 3, 2011 The springs could have been 5160 as well. Who knows? I do know this much. They make a good looking blade and temper rather hard. I hope to get good at this craft someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I hope to get good at this craft someday. The only thing I see that is a little off, is your assumption that someday you will get good at this craft. I don't know what your idea of good is but mine says that you have arrived. It is a beautiful blade with a really nice pattern. I can only hope that someday I will be able to achieve the skill level that you consider "good". Perhaps you meant "better". Thanks for posting, well done! Mark <>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM454 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Thank you This is my first layered blade. I've made 8 or 10 rr spike knives and one cable blade so far. I have to say I enjoy doing this as much or more than anything I've ever done so far. I'm a perfectionist for the most part. I was taught if you do something do it to the best of you ability. When I seen these wonderful blades others make, it gives me something to shoot for so to speak. I've seen some beautiful blades on here and on other sites as well. I keep telling myself. Someday you will make one like that :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Really? Learned something. to expand the relationships of steel types: 1075 is a nice carbon steel, if we add 1.75 to 2% nickel we get 15N20. Add to that about .80% chrome and .15 to .35% moly and its L-6, reasonably red hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 to expand the relationships of steel types: 1075 is a nice carbon steel, if we add 1.75 to 2% nickel we get 15N20. Add to that about .80% chrome and .15 to .35% moly and its L-6, reasonably red hard. "Band-saw blades" probably covers a wide range of materials. What sort of band-saw blades are we talking about here? Wood cutting? Metal cutting? Might be confusing for some who don't know the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 while 15N20 is commonly used for band saw blade I'd love to see the definitive proof of this, like a large sampling of bandsaw blades analyzed, all different types too like Grant says, wood, metal..... When I met the technical representative from Lenox when I worked for Fastenal he sure didn't say they were 15n20 LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 your first damascus blade is quite a thing, I still have mine and use it daily . 15n20.....I have only ever come across this material as band saw blades .either as the raw material from udderholm sold as uncut blade stock or as big swedged lumber mill blades dimentions of 180mm by 3mm by long . in the uk it is very rare to find a used mill saw blade made from it . most are 1080 variants like en42, cs70, cs80... ( that we call L6 in the uk not at all like your L6) some smaller ones euro 1095 (20c). if its big bandsaw blade and bright in the damascus it could well be 15n20.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I'd love to see the definitive proof of this, like a large sampling of bandsaw blades analyzed, all different types too like Grant says, wood, metal..... Sam the problem with all this is that price and other decisions mean that there is no generic steel type for a certain kind of blade .........even within one company it will change with time. if you really need to know what steel you are using buy new or have it analysed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM454 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 http://www.knivesby.com/bandsawsteel.html Here's where I got my reference as wood band saw blades being 15n20. I'll find out for sure the maker of the blades I used and what the materials in them. I know where the blades come from and the man who buys them for the mill. What I have looks just like it but, we all know looks can be deceiving. I do know the blade came out well and I'm happy with it so far. I'm going to give it a try as to finishing it this week. I may cheat and let me neighbor help me with my first one. He's been making stag horn knives for the last 15 years or more. I'll do the work under his guidance of course. I'd never take credit for someone else work. I'll post it when I'm done. Where it comes out good or bad. Wish me luck on this one. Thank you all Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2703adam Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Scott, The knife looks great! Do you have a press or power hammer or do you do it all by hand? -Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM454 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Thank you I use a small press made from 1/4" x 2" x2" tubing and a air over hydraulic jack. Simple design but, works well. I took the easy route and bought the steel new for it. If I lived closer to a scrap yard I'd have scrounged around to see what I could find but, gas being as high as it is. It was just about as cheap for me to buy it new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I'd love to see the definitive proof of this, like a large sampling of bandsaw blades analyzed, all different types too like Grant says, wood, metal..... When I met the technical representative from Lenox when I worked for Fastenal he sure didn't say they were 15n20 LOL That is kind of my point. But why ask me what proof??? BM454 said: "It's a ladder pattern with 112 layers of leaf springs and band saw blades. I'm guessing it's 15n20 and 1084 " I asked if he was sure of the metal ID, because as you pointed out there are many other metals used in making band saw blades, but admitted that a common use for 15N20 is as band saw blade. I dont recall him stating he if he used Lenox or another brand. (tho I do prefer them for my band saw) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM454 Posted September 5, 2011 Author Share Posted September 5, 2011 I have some small Lenox Bi-metal blades I use with banding to make my first (somewhat) layered blade. It didn't come out as well as this one. Not to bad just not near as good as this one. As far as the springs go. Your guess is as good as mine. I had read somewhere in the past 1084 was used in leaf springs. The saw blades I used on this one where the big saw mill blades. I have access to all I could ever use. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 One of the things about used metals is the unknown composition, safer to state that its used band saw blade and pallet strap than to assume its one set of specs. Even tho we have to assume a few things to attempt to harden it. I have read statements from udderholm, that they use a plain carbon for small wood blades and 15N20 for larger lumber mill sized band saw blades. You did make a nice blade, since we seem to have gotten a bit off of that topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM454 Posted September 5, 2011 Author Share Posted September 5, 2011 Thank you. I've just gotten married and in the process of moving. Between not having the horn I want to use and moving. I've not had much time to do much work on my blade. I look forward to finishing it though. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM454 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Ok Here's the finished product. I can't take full credit for it due to the fact my neighbor helped me out. He's been doing it for many many years and this is my first. I did however do all the blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYBOY Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 When you get 15n20 from several suppliers it has Uddenholm stamped right on it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick maxen Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Scott, that is a nice first blade and something to be proud of. When you fancy having another go at the ladder pattern, one thing this pattern benefits from is a high layer bar of about 300 layers and the grooves cut more close together. Then when its etched you get an incredible play of shimmering light as it reflects back from the blade. To do this I would have my bar with 300 layers and stagger the grind marks from side to side. If the bar is 1/2" thick then cut/grind or file to a depth of 1/8", but no more. Stagger the cuts from side to side or top to bottom, however you are looking at it, but leave an area of flat between the cuts. Where you have flat one side you will have cut the other side. Forge all this back to a flat bar at a good welding heat with flux. I will try to find a photo to show what I mean. You also get this shimmering light effect from twisted bars. Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick maxen Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 I can't find an example of a ladder pattern, but here is the same effect with twisted bars welded together. The first photo shows the bar face on and the second photo at an angle to catch the light. Where the layers are tight together is where the effect occurs. With a ladder pattern this happens in abundance. Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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