Hesitant to Start, Lots of questions/concerns

[Ben van Leeuwen]

So I have been toying with the idea of blacksmithing for a couple of years now, and I am thinking that it is just about time to quit thinking and start doing. That being said, I have several concerns about starting that I would value some seasoned input on.

1. My biggest concern is my location. I am living in the middle of a city. I am somewhat concerned that the noise is going to irritate some of the neighbours. They are all nice folks, but I don't know how far I could push them. The city by-laws are pretty vague as to what is allowed regarding noise and leaves it mostly up to the interpretation of the bylaw officer. "No person shall, within the territorial limits of the City, make any unusual noise or noise likely to disturb the inhabitants".

I intend on doing the work out of my detached garage, so I will at least have the shop walls to deaden the sound. I have read up on deadening the sound of the anvil which would help too. I guess my concern is still that even if I can get it to a point where the blows are 'thuds' instead of 'rings', will it still be too loud? I haven't seen a lot of smithing in person to gauge what the volume may be like in my shop. I certainly don't want to get shut down over a noise complaint though.

2. I am not too concerned about having a forge. The bylaw states that "Open air burning does not include a controlled burn that is part of a manufacturing process" and thus is permitted. I think I could argue that one pretty well if I had my forge sitting outside the garage. While it is inside, my intent would be to build a fume hood and exhaust that will vent any smoke and CO. I know the insurance company likely wouldn't be too fussy about having a small forge in my garage, but I figure if I protect a good sized area with concrete board I should be O.K. (What they don't know can't hurt them, and I will just pray that nothing happens) Besides, it can't be any worse than welding.

What I need input on though is what type of forge I should use. I want to stay away from coal due to the smell of the smoke. That leaves me with charcoal and propane as the other options I would consider. I want to build my own forge and have found good plans for both options. For the charcoal, I think I would go with a wash tub style, and for the propane, most likely an empty cylinder lined with kaowool.

The pro's I see with the charcoal is the quietness of the forge, as well as the more traditional experience of forging. The con's that I see are the amount of charcoal that would likely be needed, as well as the inability to put it out and cool it quickly at the end of the day.
The pro's I see with propane is the relative cleanliness, as well as the ability to turn the heat source off quickly. The con that I see is the noise.

I know this has been a long one, so thanks for reading. I value any and all input, particularly from those in a similar situation.

[ThomasPowers]

Propane is not that noisy!

I smithed for nearly 15 years in inner city Columbus OH in a detached garage!

Try to get a Fisher anvil if possible or a Vulcan. *Much* quieter!

What are your neighbors like? I had one who was retired and said the smell of coal smoke reminded her of being a child living in a house with a coal furnace. I had one that would call the Fire Department on me. By supreme luck they got called 4 times in a row when I was using my smoker to cook dinner (an allowed usage!) rather than my forge. I was told sub rosa that the caller was informed that they would get a $1000 fine for "False Alarms" after the 4th time they wedged the firetruck down the narrow alleyway to find me cooking salmon...End of that problem.

Young children near by---work with their parents to avoid nap times.

Be aware of more than fire regs. Columbus had one that stated that nobody could make a fume or odor that was detectable at the property line. Only enforced if someone complained.

Any historical places near you where you could smith a while to get the basics learned? Things are quieter when you know what you are doing in my experience.

[Bentiron1946]

If you have sensitive neighbors I suggest that you have a conversation with them before you invest a lot of time and money in starting with building a smithy. It can be rather discouraging to get every thing to gather and then have the complaints roll in like a thunderstorm. That being said it is also possible to be a stealth smith with the right equipment. Propane forges need not sound like a jet engine get revved up for take off, there are quiet burning models and design out there and anvils can be made very quiet. Most of the real ringing comes as the metal you are forging cools down so you really need to watch the color. Also time of day plays an important part in disturbance of your neighbors, starting as 5 in the morning or after 10 at night are not the best of times to be working, trust me on that. I used to do bronze casting at home and lighting off the burner was always a shock for the neighbors so I had them all over for a beer and had them watch the process of a melt and pour. That gesture sure stopped the calls to the police and fire department. You need to do some PR work when you undertake to do this kind of thing in a residential environment. Good luck with your endeavor.

[Ben van Leeuwen]

Good advice to talk to the neighbours. I talked to the one closest, and he is on board. Somewhat interested to learn the processes himself. The other closest neighbours are somewhat finicky. Nice folks, but good at gossip and such. I think if I can get going and figure out to make something half decent presentable as a gift, they should be fine.

I will definitely keep the fisher and vulcan anvils in mind. It's tough when they are few and far between in this area, but I would rather wait for one and improvise with some rail tie in the mean time, than be stuck with a real noisy anvil and not be able to use it. I am also leaning toward the propane forge. If I had space in the country, I wouldn't hesitate to use coal or charcoal, but I think for where I am at, a propane forge can be made small enough to be tucked away when not in use.

I've been keeping my ears open for a place to learn a few tricks without costing a fortune. There is a pioneer village near by, but they are winding down for the season. I guess it couldn't hurt to drop them a line anyway.

The more I read on this site, the more I am learning. There are an awful lot of very talented people to learn from here.

[Rob Browne]

If noise is a problem consider using a 4x4x12 drop of steel as you anvil. It will not ring and is surely large enough for most hand hammering jobs.

[kpotter]

I was doing alot of forging in my house until about a week ago when I moved to an industrial shop. I had no trouble with neighbors and I was running a power hammer. I think you should consider propane just because it is cheap and easy. You might want to look into a hydraulic forging press they are quite compared to hammering. If you are just going to use an anvil I dont think the neighbors wil XXXXX they are not as noisy as you might think. Once you start up the angle grinder though, all XXXX will break loose.

[beth]

i think do your thing, but make neighbours nice presents and make them interested... win them over! jobs a good un :)

[David Einhorn]

Large magnets placed against the bottom of the heel of an anvil are very good at quieting anvils. One easy source of large magnets are "cow magnets" available at your local farm store. The magnets absorb the vibrations of the anvil and convert the vibrations into movement of the magnets instead of noise. When you combine a quieted anvil, a quiet smokeless propane forge and some insulation in the walls of your building, and favors to neighbors who need stuff fixed, you should be fine.

I visited one smith who was making knives in his garage using a Little Giant power hammer, and a grinder… with the door open, and one of his neighbors came by to pick up a mower of which he had welded the mower deck.

When we moved 20 years ago, one requirement was zoning and such for blacksmithing

[tlreif]

My smithy is in my garage. I find that the neighbors are more fascinated at what I am doing to be concerned about complaining. As was mentioned I work at only reasonable time of day. When I get home from work i only smith till 8:00 p.m.. I figure the little ones are being tucked in at this time so I quit. I do have a power hammer and once they got used to the sound they are ok with it. The first time they thought someone was shooting a gun! Then they were like oh its only Todd. LOL.

[Old N Rusty]

I am suprised no one mentioned coke. In another post i saw coke and coal is available in Ontario. Coke does not smoke like coal does, and other than the necessity of keeping a near constant air blast is a very good solid fuel. Petroleum products are getting expensive, and with propane , a gas that is HEAVIER than air, an explosion is possible from a leak, or just not turning off the valve... blow up your house, and everyone, neighbors, cops, and yourself will be upset.

[wedwards]

. . . I know the insurance company likely wouldn't be too fussy about having a small forge in my garage, but I figure if I protect a good sized area with concrete board I should be O.K. (What they don't know can't hurt them, and I will just pray that nothing happens) Besides, it can't be any worse than welding. . .

You may want to think about checking with them before you fire up any kind of forge in your garage. What they don't know can hurt you if something does happen from an unlisted or unapproved heat source. They should have no problem with it if the installation meets your fire code. Having the local fire inspector check things out ahead of time and approving the installation could make the difference between having insurance coverage or not having it in case of an unintended fire. Just a thought.

Bill

[Francis Trez Cole]

don't be shy to use coal the initial light up is the when you have smoke. I to was worried with my neighbors. I checked with the fire marshal made sure my set up was good and in side the law. Then the day I was going to light up invited them over for coffee and doughnuts and made them each a hook for the house. Most people were interested and When I work they show up to see what I am working on or just to hang out and talk. In the old days the blacksmith shop was the hub of the town every one needed his services at some time or an other. I have had 4 different shop setups in 4 different towns and did the same process and no real complaints some nights I worked up to 10:00 pm. and where you live its cold so in the winter you are going to want to work in side.

[Ben van Leeuwen]

Again thanks for all of the advice / encouragement. I spent the last few days paying extra special attention to the noises around our neighbourhood. Between the multiple neighbours yippy little ankle biters and the auto shop a couple lots over that thinks a rev-up tune-up is the best way to fix a car, I think a little metal on metal in my garage would go passively unnoticed. For now, I am going to continue scrounging for scrap odds and ends to build a propane forge, as well as an anvil, or at least something that could serve the same purpose in the mean time. Maybe by winter I will have my shop set up with an forge and exhaust fan and will be able to post the odd photo. Until then, I will continue to learn.

[Francis Trez Cole]

Auto shop great hook up for springs and other scrap metal great friend to have. Make the owner a knife.