bowens01999 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Hello, i am new to this web site and forging. i am trying to make a tomahawk out of a horse rasp , heated up good folded it over good but i cant get it to weld. i am using 20 mule borax and i have read about it watched it done on youtube but i am falling short some where. can i ask for your advise on what i need to do and what i am doing wrong your help would and is greatly needed if you wouldnt mind. thank you Brent Owens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 You may want to edit your profile and provide your were-a-bouts, this will help with possibly pointing you to a smith in your area that may be willing to help you on a personnal basis with learning the fine art of forge welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 My most common welding failures, and these are my own, you might be able to find your fault in them: 1. Metal not hot enough - needs to be just shy of sparkling. In fact, I tend to have more success if I get it sparkly. 2. To slow getting to the anvil - the metal will cool off on me! 3. To slow getting the hammer to the metal - the anvil will suck the heat way fast. You should have your hammer on the way down before the stock hits the anvil 4. Hitting to hard. Yep! Hit it too hard and you squirt all the liquid metal out. Try going to a small hammer. I've actually had great success using my smallest ball peen hammer. You need speed and accuracy, not brute force. 5. Skip the flux. If you get it hot enough you don't need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Forge welding is one of those things that is a LOT simpler to have an experience person show you how than to try to learn it from a book. If you are near central NM I would be happy to, (or are attending the SCA's Battlemoor event in Colorado where I plan to do some pattern welding.) Did you have a "proper" fire---deep and clean? Did you take it to the correct temperature? Was the piece prepared properly to have minimal scaling before trying to weld? Kind of hard to troubleshoot this way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowens01999 Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 thank you for your tips. im in southern oklahoma, to far for on hand tips from most, but i think not heating the steel up enough was probly my biggest problem a little impatiant , i want to make something to bad and i probly am not letting my steel heat to a proper temp. and i did try to beat the steel to death now i no different , i am trying to make a tomahawk from a farrier rasp seen pics of them and have several sence i am a farrier but just not getting the hang of it. i have a two burner gas forge,and still trying to get the hang of it. i am interested in making knives and tomahawks youtube makes it look easy but i have no experiance,just shooting from the hips . any info will be very apriated. thank you and forgive the spelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Brent,the atmosphere in your forge must be right(reducing)for welding.With propane,i seem to remember that one of the ways to tell is to see an orange flame out the door. There are good and bad things about propane.The good is that once you have it dialed in,you got it,and everything becomes easy.Just make sure that you give it enough time to heat throughout(Here i emphatically disagree with Drewed:High temp is destructive(most steel welds WAY below sparking heat,which is a sign of burning your material,and flux is very helpful indeed.But the atmosphere makes or breaks the weld vastly outweighing all other factors). In more practical terms:Make a pointy end on some 1/4" stock or the like,and keep touching the steel in the forge as it's heating-you will feel it get sticky,it's not subtle,either-it'll stick enough to make it hard to unstick! As in any experiment,it really helps to limit your factors of what can go screwey to a minimum.Thus,it's best to keep your material predictable.I.e.,steel with nothing but carbon as an alloying element.Rasps,et c.,are cute an' all,but are really an affectation,but mainly,you just never know what exactly it is.Some alloys are just that much more difficult to weld.Also,the rasp being all fairly high-C steel,you may run into several other issues along the way. And lastly,here's something that's my own opinion,for whatever it's worth:Rasps,railroad spikes,hammer-heads reforged,are all an affectation,vs an honest exercise in FORGING.They simply don't teach you very much about the craft,don't contribute to your informedness or your skill level. So,if you really want a rasp tomahawk,just buy one.And if you want to learn to forge,get some 1040 or some other simple steel,some 1018-20(cold-rolled,it tends to be a bit better quality,as in predictable),and get some FORGING under your belt.Both drifting an eye and wrapping it can work very well,for different tools.Vs.trinkets,souvenirs,and such.You will get both a better product,and some skill under your belt.But all that is my (grumpy)opinion.Feel free to disregard,and the very best of luck. Respectfully,Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 You mean you're near the famous Saltfork Craftsmen Artist Blacksmiths Assoc? http://www.saltforkcraftsmen.org/ Dang I've been wanting to attend their conference from here in central NM I'd suggest getting in touch with them and seeing if anyone near by is also a member and tracking them down. My mother is from the Altus area, Humphreys, I used to be a mudlogger in the deep Anadarko Basin in western OK. Bought a lot of good equipment in some of the small towns! (Ask around the cafe and start tracking!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Get to a Saltfork meeting! Check the web site ThomasP linked to find where the next South Central meeting will be and GO! If you want to make the trip, I'm in Longview, TX and my shop is always open. I'm a member of Saltfork and the guys and gals are fun and VERY knowledgable and always willing to help. Bill Davis makes one of the best looking hawks from a rasp I have ever seen and can really give you some good hands on help with you particular forge weld on that piece. Bill will most likely be at the next South Central meeting as that is the region he lives in...but heck, he makes nearly all of the each month! What part of South OK are you in? ya know it stretches clean across the bottom of the state. Oh yeah, Howdy from East TEXAS!! and welcome to IFI! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowens01999 Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 thank you very much i need all the help i can get . any advise will help and is wanted . thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Bowens, you said that you are a farrier, do you forge weld your bar shoes? Know anyone that does? Good practice, good to know how to do, and if you can do that, the other "fun" stuff is quite similar. Forging is forging and welding is welding. At least if you are practicing bar shoes all you expenses are tax deductible What kind of forge do you have? If it's a NC like mine, it will weld fine, but it has to be about as hot as you can get it. Turn up your regulator to 12 or so and wait untill the steel is the same color as your forge liner, that is after is has had a chance to get good and hot. let it run for ten minutes or so. Brush, flux, heat, and light hammer blows. Have your hammer in your hand and everything set up. Let your hammer bring the steel to the anvil. A couple of hits and brush, flux, reheat. Pretty much goes for bar shoes and tomahawks. Just my take on it, there is many others on here that are much more knowledgable then me. Good luck. Cody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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