mattinker Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Hi, I've posted pictures of my old French Anvil, I broke my old weighing scales trying to weigh it. Rough calculations put it at about 115 Kgs. It rings well. I have started cleaning up the corners which were not broken, but slightly mushroomed. As you can see, both point are broken off, I'm afraid that if I weld new points on they will just break off! I just did a spark test on the work formed ridge on the horn. Long orange sparks that explode at the end. Like cast but an exploding end I would be grateful for your comments particularly on what it's made of and is it weld-able! Regards, Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 That first pic looks like this one. Even the welding machine in the same spot. What other info do you have on your anvil? Are you in France? Mine is 400 lbs and has had a new tip welded on the round horn. That was done long before I owned it so I don't know what rod was used. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinker Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 That first pic looks like this one. Even the welding machine in the same spot. What other info do you have on your anvil? Are you in France? Mine is 400 lbs and has had a new tip welded on the round horn. That was done long before I owned it so I don't know what rod was used. Rob Hi, Yes I live in France (although I am not French!). My Anvil is typically French in that like yours, it has no pritchle hole, no step and two "horns". I have a second, smaller one that has better "horns", but the shoulders are more damaged. Whilst thinking about your Anvil, I realised that my spark test was incomplete so I went back an tried the grinding the top and the side, I've answered my own question, a cast iron body wit a steel plate welded on top. As the body is cast by the spark, I won't be able to do much to it that I can see! To be able to see your Anvil, I changed the colour"levels" I hope you don't mind! They are exactly the same shape! Regards, Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Can you differentiate between a cast iron spark and a wrought iron spark? They can be quite close at times and I would believe a wrought iron body over a cast iron one for that anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinker Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 Can you differentiate between a cast iron spark and a wrought iron spark? They can be quite close at times and I would believe a wrought iron body over a cast iron one for that anvil. Thanks, I used a description that I found, I was struck by the difference in colour, the body sparks being much more red. If it's wrought, I should be able to weld it! How about 7018 rods? Regards, Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 look up Rob Gunther's method of anvil repair. Note that welding on real wrought iron can be quite tricky due to the slag entrained in it. Horns are usually pretty soft compared to faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Being French does it say " I surrender" after each hammer blow? Those horns look pretty massive. Rather than try to weld on, could you re-grind them to a better point? Or is this a major no-no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinker Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 Being French does it say " I surrender" after each hammer blow? I dont know, ask Lafayette! Those horns look pretty massive. Rather than try to weld on, could you re-grind them to a better point? Or is this a major no-no? I thought about that but they would be kinda stubby. Regards, Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinker Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 look up Rob Gunther's method of anvil repair. Note that welding on real wrought iron can be quite tricky due to the slag entrained in it. Horns are usually pretty soft compared to faces. I'll lookit straight up! Thanks, Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Mattinker, I found another pic of my anvil, with writing on it. Story I was told when I bought it was this anvil was brought to the USA from France to Kenneth Lynches shop when they repaired the Statue of Liberty with the French shop that made it. They did not want to ship the anvil home with them. I have never got the writing translated (can't read French). Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinker Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 Mattinker, I found another pic of my anvil, with writing on it. Story I was told when I bought it was this anvil was brought to the USA from France to Kenneth Lynches shop when they repaired the Statue of Liberty with the French shop that made it. They did not want to ship the anvil home with them. I have never got the writing translated (can't read French). Rob Rob, Hulot and Harmel is the make, A in this context is "at", et is "and",so Sedan et Doncherry is where they were made in the French Ardennes. there are still foudries there, but non under the name Hulot Harmel 25600 would appear to be the serial number. There a few on ebay.fr at the moment! I'm sorry, I cant tell you more than that A very nice looking anvil! Everything points towards the story as being true! Regards, Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinker Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 look up Rob Gunther's method of anvil repair. Note that welding on real wrought iron can be quite tricky due to the slag entrained in it. Horns are usually pretty soft compared to faces. Thanks for the pointer, I'm going to have to find an equivalent rod, as I can't find the same ones here. I'm seeing the Castolin rep soon and I've found the Eutectic equivalent. It may be a while away, but I'll keep you posted! Regards, Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Matthew, Thank you for the translation. It is nice to know for sure what it says. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 In one of my books, the hardie is shown with the curved shank. I have only seen drawings and photos of this on early Franch anvils. I suppose one could carefully forge the shank while leaving a lump on top for the future hardie blade. You could drive the shank into the hole, hot, to curve it, and draw out the blade later. Cast iron has a peculiar spark shower...nigh invisible carrier lines coming off the wheel, dark red color, with a very occasional, odd shaped burst at the end of one carrier line. This is quite different from wrought iron which has a brighter, more visible color and a fairly straight line shower, sometimes dashes on the end. You will get small, straight line sprigs off the carrier lines, but no bursting, as with mild steel and higher carbon steel bursting. Always check an unknown to a known. http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of Blacksmith Schools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinker Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 In one of my books, the hardie is shown with the curved shank. I have only seen drawings and photos of this on early Franch anvils. I suppose one could carefully forge the shank while leaving a lump on top for the future hardie blade. You could drive the shank into the hole, hot, to curve it, and draw out the blade later. Cast iron has a peculiar spark shower...nigh invisible carrier lines coming off the wheel, dark red color, with a very occasional, odd shaped burst at the end of one carrier line. This is quite different from wrought iron which has a brighter, more visible color and a fairly straight line shower, sometimes dashes on the end. You will get small, straight line sprigs off the carrier lines, but no bursting, as with mild steel and higher carbon steel bursting. Always check an unknown to a known. http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of Blacksmith Schools I'm sorry not to have replied sooner, I've been working away from home. The Hardie is curved, coming out of the side. I don't think I'd risk driving it in to form it, the inside is quite rough and I wouldn't like to get it stuck. I don't think it will be too hard to forge the curve and taper. I went back and had another look at my anvil and compared it with another that "rings" cast, I'm sure now that mine is wrought with a welded hard face. I'm waiting for the Castolin rep to show up to get some hard facing rods to repair the "horns". Regards, Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 look up Rob Gunther's method of anvil repair. Note that welding on real wrought iron can be quite tricky due to the slag entrained in it. Horns are usually pretty soft compared to faces. does anyone have a link to the Rob Gunther method as I see it referenced and can't find any info on what it is ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 does anyone have a link to the Rob Gunther method as I see it referenced and can't find any info on what it is ? Here http://www.anvilmag.com/smith/anvilres.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I know that you are hot and bothered to weld it all up and such however it is really alright the way it is you know. Smooth out the area that were broken off so you don't damage yourself and have a good time forging on it as is. Now I have read a good many of the articles written here on IFI and if my mind ain't playing tricks on me it seems if "hard face" rods were the least favored of the rods for building up and anvil. I not all that interested in rereading all of the old posts on welding anvils but you may want to do that, I'm just a big fan of welding up old anvils. I feel this way about it, if you want an anvil that looks like new, well then go buy a new one. I understand the Turks make a pretty nice anvil at a fairly reasonable price. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 If it were mine I'd be tempted to drill and tap maybe a 5/8 stud into the face of the breaks and build up from there, it would provide extra support..............mb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinybigsmoke Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Hey here is an idea, If you determine it is wrought iron, and since we are all blacksmiths, heat the horn of the anvil and forge it back into shape, a team of 3 heavy strikers and a large forge should be able to do the job, if your a member of a blacksmith assoc maybe at next meeting see if you can get some members to help, be a good group project, grinding to re-point will just remove metal, forging will just reallocate it and u lose nothing in weight and have a professional job when done. The next best thing, I agree with Bentiron1946 comment to just leave it as it is, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinker Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 Hi, I wouldn't describe myself as being "hot and bothered" to weld it up! My original project was to leave it as it is and build a small square and round horn anvil using RR track, but vertically with a stubby "T" with the two "horns on it along the lines of http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/anvils/making/RR-rail_anvils.php This would allow me to make what I couldn't without the points. Then I read the "Rob Gunther" article, and checked out the Castolin equivalents of the rods he uses I haven't got the same resources you have in the US!. I thought that I would give it a go! Now I'm coming back round to my original idea, but I still have to get some 7018 rods to weld the RR track. It could be use full to have a blunt ended anvil! Regards, Matt I know that you are hot and bothered to weld it all up and such however it is really alright the way it is you know. Smooth out the area that were broken off so you don't damage yourself and have a good time forging on it as is. Now I have read a good many of the articles written here on IFI and if my mind ain't playing tricks on me it seems if "hard face" rods were the least favored of the rods for building up and anvil. I not all that interested in rereading all of the old posts on welding anvils but you may want to do that, I'm just a big fan of welding up old anvils. I feel this way about it, if you want an anvil that looks like new, well then go buy a new one. I understand the Turks make a pretty nice anvil at a fairly reasonable price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinker Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 Hi, interesting idea, I could go bigger than that, I have big size taps available. I may just cut it off straight and us it as it is with a small home made Anvil like I describe in my reply to Bentiron1946. Regards, Matt I know that you are hot and bothered to weld it all up and such however it is really alright the way it is you know. Smooth out the area that were broken off so you don't damage yourself and have a good time forging on it as is. Now I have read a good many of the articles written here on IFI and if my mind ain't playing tricks on me it seems if "hard face" rods were the least favored of the rods for building up and anvil. I not all that interested in rereading all of the old posts on welding anvils but you may want to do that, I'm just a big fan of welding up old anvils. I feel this way about it, if you want an anvil that looks like new, well then go buy a new one. I understand the Turks make a pretty nice anvil at a fairly reasonable price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinker Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 Hi, for the moment, I'm not in a position to be able to reforge the anvil, I would be reluctant to have to heat treat it! I am tending towards the cut it off square and use it as it is solution! Regards, Matthew Hey here is an idea, If you determine it is wrought iron, and since we are all blacksmiths, heat the horn of the anvil and forge it back into shape, a team of 3 heavy strikers and a large forge should be able to do the job, if your a member of a blacksmith assoc maybe at next meeting see if you can get some members to help, be a good group project, grinding to re-point will just remove metal, forging will just reallocate it and u lose nothing in weight and have a professional job when done. The next best thing, I agree with Bentiron1946 comment to just leave it as it is, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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