Cody Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I made some pretty cool hatchets out of old farrier rasps. I was wondering how hot to draw the temper to? THe only one I tempered so far, I put it in the oven at 500 for on hour or better. The wife wasn't real happy with me because i couldn't get all the oil out of the eye. The fine side of the rasp is left in the eye making it hard to clean out. Anyway, I found a toaster oven at walmart for $18, but the thing only goes to 450. I can find info on knives and such, just not much on axes and hatchets. The other thing I was wondering about is should I be leaving the back soft and just hardening the cutting edge. If I put the back in water and heat it with a o/a torch, then I could oil quench it. That might be better. Any advice? Thanks in advance Cody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Learnin' Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I made some pretty cool hatchets out of old farrier rasps. I was wondering how hot to draw the temper to? THe only one I tempered so far, I put it in the oven at 500 for on hour or better. The wife wasn't real happy with me because i couldn't get all the oil out of the eye. The fine side of the rasp is left in the eye making it hard to clean out. Anyway, I found a toaster oven at walmart for $18, but the thing only goes to 450. I can find info on knives and such, just not much on axes and hatchets. The other thing I was wondering about is should I be leaving the back soft and just hardening the cutting edge. If I put the back in water and heat it with a o/a torch, then I could oil quench it. That might be better. Any advice? Thanks in advance Cody Hey Cody, glad to hear you've been busy at the forge. I don't , no let me rephrase that, I know I'm not the best one to answer your question but seeing as how it's been a day or two with no reply I'll give it a shot. Just my two cents but from what I can gather on your post you seem to have the common misconception of tempering. Tempering is NOT hardening. Tempering is the act of drawing hardness out of an object. When you forge something you rearrange the molecular structure of it and those molecules are often in a state of stress. In essence, forging makes the metal brittle. Tempering simply allows the objects molecules to "relax" as it were. I'm no materials engineer and hopefully one of the bladesmiths on here will see your post and reply as to what type steel farrier's rasps consist of. I wouldn't think you'd have to put the back edge in water though if you were just using an o/a torch though as long as you confine the heat to the edge. There is a fine line between tempering and burning though, so be careful !!! I personally don't think a farrier's rasp has enough carbon content to worry about spot heat treating though. One question I have though, I know some guys who forge rasps into axes and they weld a piece of high carbon for the cutting edge. Is that what you are doing or just using the rasp itself ? That would be the only variable IMHO as to the heat treat. If it's just the rasp I would simply wrap it in foil and put it in the toaster oven at high setting for an hour. Then shut it off and leave it to cool overnight. Polish it, stick a handle in it and last but not least, POST pics for all to see !!! BTW: I find toaster ovens all day long at Goodwill that will go to 500* deg. f for $5 or so. No need to spend money on a GOOD toaster at Wally World when a crappy dirty one will work like a charm. Hope this helped, it's confused the heck outta me !!! Keep your eyes peeled for ads for machine shops closing, etc. I got a nice Blue M heat treat oven at a machine shop sale for $25 !!! It's small and it's analog but it works and it was cheap !!! Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 In the old days the term tempering was used for the entire heat treat sequence. Nowadays we tend to break heat treat down into separate steps each with a high faluting name. Sounds to me that he knows what he's doing---heated and oil quenched, then was drawing temper in the oven. Now as to how much to draw it, 500 seems a bit much to me if you got a good alloy rasp; *BUT* a lot of it depends on how *YOU* like your hatchets! I tend to draw mine a bit softer to make it easy to clean up the edge with a file---we use a rasp hatchet for kindling for our woodstove and so we hit nails and rocks sometimes and I prefer to have a much smaller divot when we do. So my best suggestion is to try it at 450 and see how you like it! Also you really only n4eed to harden and temper the cutting edge so just heating that up with a torch or a forge and leaving the back end alone should work fine---don't place in water---you want the back end to soften---you'd be drawing a temper on it as you brought the edge up to temp to quench. (now you *don't* want the back end to get hot enough to harden in the quench but that is usually not a problem.) Note that quenching in warm vegetable oil is often a better deal when using the family oven for tempering than nasty old motor oil! (been married 27 years---so far) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Thanks guys. I reallized last night that there would be no reason to keep the eye in water, just don't let it get too hot....duh!! I think that I will try 450 degrees on the next one. Good tip on the veggie oil instead of the motor Oil! I have heared that some put better steel in for a bit, I just thought I would try it without first. I don't know what steel rasps are made out of.I have heard that they were better years ago. I know that they are very britle out of the factory. It is possible to break them into several pieces if you whack them on something. I think that I will try one with some other bit sometime, maybe some leaf spring or 1095 or something. Here's a pic. One handled and one ready for handling. I like the size of the unhandled one better. The handle is just a "Boy Scout" hatchet handle that I burned and linseed oiled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Learnin' Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Thanks guys. I reallized last night that there would be no reason to keep the eye in water, just don't let it get too hot....duh!! I think that I will try 450 degrees on the next one. Good tip on the veggie oil instead of the motor Oil! I have heared that some put better steel in for a bit, I just thought I would try it without first. I don't know what steel rasps are made out of.I have heard that they were better years ago. I know that they are very britle out of the factory. It is possible to break them into several pieces if you whack them on something. I think that I will try one with some other bit sometime, maybe some leaf spring or 1095 or something. Here's a pic. One handled and one ready for handling. I like the size of the unhandled one better. The handle is just a "Boy Scout" hatchet handle that I burned and linseed oiled. Cody, I apologize if I came across like you didn't know what you were doing. Thomas is right, you are correct in your steps. I am just slightly anal when it comes to terminology. Hope you understand. I like the looks of your two hatchet heads. I've yet to try one. I think I'm just too tight... errr, frugal and can't stand to forge something that is still serviceable. Maybe one day I'll just "accidentally" drop it in the fire. Then I'll HAVE to forge it !!! I've often wondered if anyone's ever made one with the rasp side "in" ? Would you then still need a wedge ? LOL Again, nice job and keep up the good work !!! Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I did my first one with the coarse side to the inside I still wedged it though, the failure mode would not be nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_bluegrass Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 From what I've gathered, rasps and files tend to fall into two categories. One is case-hardened and while forgeable, they tend not to have enough carbon to adequately harden. The other is a high carbon steel. I've read that 1095, W1, W2 and 1.22% Carbon steel are common. There is very little difference between them particularly if you have a primitive heat treating set up. The W2 and 1.22% Carbon steel may benefit from a bit more soak. I don't know why some people weld a bit into the working end when turning a rasp into a hawk unless they've gotten a hold of a case-hardened one. ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 No sweat Joe, not sure where my terminolgy was wrong, but no matter. As far as using something still servicible, just find a farrier and he should have a pile of rasps that not worth using, at least for him,under a horse. Most farrier go through one a week, Some one a month, I know one guy changes it out every morning, a waist in my opinion, but whatever. I have nno idea if mine are case-hardened or not. They are Heller brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Bit can give you a lot more steel to play with if you are going for a bearded style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiapan Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 whichever way you like working, i really like the work you did with the rasps. I am particularly fond of the texture they give to the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Another factor is that high carbon bits are easier to come by than used rasps... for some smiths. The rasp surface is nice for it's decorative value... while an old mower blade or some such will make a nice cutting edge and stretch your rasp supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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