First time Blacksmith (any advice?)

[ChaosForge]

Hello all,



My name is Jacob Ferguson and I just made my very first forge. I am just starting out in the world of blacksmithing and would love some advice on anything you think would be helpful.
My top concerns are as listed below if I could get some answers. thanks.



1. did you make your set of tongs out of hot roll stock or spring steel, or just high carbon? whats the best material for tongs?
2. best style of all around tongs? what should I make to encompass the most common needs?
3. what style of hammer is your favorite all round use?
4. anyone know of a source of blacksmithing tools/supplies in the state of washington? (western Washington)
5. pros and cons of charcoal vs Coal fuel.


I have been using charcoal for the last 3 days and have been getting sufficient tempature. and charcoal is 6 dollars per 19lbs so price isnt an issue at this point.

Here are some pictures of my first makings. A curved knife with a reversed blade, and a pair of tongs. lastly my forge setup. what do you think?

[hicks]

hello there glad to see another sucked in


1. did you make your set of tongs out of hot roll stock or spring steel, or just high carbon? whats the best material for tongs?
at school we make them from mild steel hot roll usually 16mmm sq or 20mm if we are making bolt tongs or so

2. best style of all around tongs? what should I make to encompass the most common needs?
in my opinion it would be bolt tongs to hold say 12mm sq and also a pair of flat bits with round bar fullered into the nibs in a cross that way you can hold flat and small round and square with them and hold larger round and square with the bolt tongs,,, square hollow bits hold round and square whereas round hollow bits only hold round.
3. what style of hammer is your favorite all round use?
personal preference here man, i started with a 2lb german style hammer but have now made a larger swedish style cross pein i like them both possibly the swedish more
4. anyone know of a source of blacksmithing tools/supplies in the state of washington? (western Washington)
eerrrr im across pond sorry bat
5. pros and cons of charcoal vs Coal fuel.
there is loadsa threads about this on here
main pros and cons are
charcoal is more expensive, burns up quicker leaves some ash, when a little piece drops into heart of fire it send an army of flying embers into the air in an unpredictable manner to attack you!(bbq charcoal possibly kept a little damp)
if you go for a cuppa the whole hearth will burn itself up
however charcoal makes a cleaner fire it may be harder to get as high temps for welding but in essence it is better for welding, no nasty fumes and tick black smoke,, in fact standing next to a charcoal forge is just lovely you can cook your eggs in the knowledge they are clean and good

coal is cheaper ,easier to get heat will build up clinkers in your fire and smells , however when it is coked up its pretty clean and sweet
hope this helps man

[ChaosForge]

Thanks hicks.

That does help. I guess i will start on a pair of bolt tongs in the morning!
when you made tongs did you heat treat or harden the jaws or anything to maintain shape? the ones I made in the picture seem to re widen after a a couple hours of use.
I was told motor oil is a good tool/blade hardening quench. any other house hold or easy to get a hold of things i should stock up on? tricks of the trade?

thanks

[wolfshieldrx]

Welcome to the Dark Side. Try to find some like-minded souls near you. You wont regret it. I use coal, live in WV so its relatively cheap tho sometimes hard to find (most of the good coal is being shipped overseas). 2-2.5 lb crosspeenhammer is probably the mosr versitile starting out. Ditto on the bolt tongs. Buy/make other tools as you need them. Make tongs from mild steel...high carbon will get brittle if you get them hot and then quench. Get a couple good books...do a search of this forum for some recommendations. Hang out here and soak it up! Im a relative newbie hobbysmith and have increased my knowlege exponentially by listening to these guys. Welcome again and enjoy!

[FieryFurnace]

Welcome to the forum Mr. Jacob.

First, let me say that that is an impressive set of tongs for a first pair. I use mild steel for my tongs and I would suggest, for the time at least, that you do the same. To keep your tongs from bending, don't let them sit in the fire. Put your work piece in and take the tongs out, rotate the work piece and take the tongs out. Every couple of heats, cool the work end off! That's how I do it and my first pair of 3/8" tongs lasted for about three years.

I use a couple different hammers myself. I recently got a short handled 3-pound sledge hammer from Sears for $14.00. It is a great little hammer and is now my general forging hammer. Second to that is a 2 1/2-pound cross peen. (cross peen hammers have a dull "chisel" shaped side and a flat sledge hammer side.)
I would suggest for starters a cross peen of your chosen weight, and a small ball peen for finish work. I've made it for nearly five years with those two hammers alone.

Coal/Charcoal
Look around and price coal. Charcoal works good, and I used it for the first couple of weeks. But it burns fast! If you can find coal, do a burn rate comparison and figure up the cost of fuel based off of the burn rate. You'll probably find coal cheaper.
Check out any old plants and schools in your area for coal. Any place that might have run coal boilers for heating or machinery in the past! They may have an old coal room that still has some stuff left in it. That is how I get my coal now, and I've got enough to last several years. The sugar sweet part about it, is the price!

Try a "swap-buy-and-sell" type radio station in your area for blacksmith tools.

My most used pair of tongs are 1/4," 3/8," and 1/2." Make them square bit tongs. (You can buy, but making them is good practice and MUCH cheaper.) Square bit tongs will hold square and round, but round bit tongs will only hold round.

These are some demo videos that may be helpful!

Hook making

Leaf making

Good luck and see ya 'round!

[HWHII]

Welcome to the insanity! You still have time to run and change your mind before you are addicted.

To answer your questions;

1) I made mine out of rebar.

2) Peddinghaus wolfs jaw are my favorite tongs followed close by bolt tongs.

3) My Peddinghaus 1000 gram Swedish hammer is my favorite.

4) Of course coal.

You should also join the North West Blacksmiths Assc. They have a great web site and a top notch ABANA organization.

[shoer]

Harry's Leather in Everett is an excellent source for any tools you may need. There also used to be one in Black Diamond but can't remember the name.

[ChaosForge]

wow,


I am overwhelmed by the responses! thanks alot for the feedback.
I am heading out to the shop right now to make some trivets and maybe finish my nail heading tool.

what do you guys use for hardening blades/bits? my dad told me he uses motor oil, anyone use something else?

thanks for the vids fieryfurnace.

and you guys are right, I am so addicted to this craft that I hope to make it my sole source of income when the time comes.
I am truly lucky to have found a resource of knowledgeable and friendly people. I was kind of in the dark there for a while!

[hicks]

Thanks hicks.

That does help. I guess i will start on a pair of bolt tongs in the morning!
when you made tongs did you heat treat or harden the jaws or anything to maintain shape? the ones I made in the picture seem to re widen after a a couple hours of use.
I was told motor oil is a good tool/blade hardening quench. any other house hold or easy to get a hold of things i should stock up on? tricks of the trade?

thanks

those are a decent little pair of tongs you have there mate, as you say they re widen after a couple of hours use ,my only suggestion would be to make them stoughter!!there is nothing wrong with the pair you have made ,, at school we constantly dip our tongs into the bosh -quench tank to keep them cool, to stop them deforming and also to not have the heat start to burn your hands and so you dont singe the nibs of your tongs this will probably fix the reopening effect,,

at school we always make the tongs the same way by doing three sets, the first we set the nibs down and draw them out a bit, then we knock the nibs to the side by placing the nibs over the far edge of the anvil at 45 degrees and squish the hinge plate area down then then we place that over the far edge and set down into the hinge plate squished area to form the back of the reins then we arduosly beat the rest of the reins out on the horn , next we round the hinge plate up or knock the edges in so the hinge plate is kinda diamond shaped , punch drift etc ,, they take a while to beat out the reins by hand on the horn but they will be a nice chunky pair of tongs that should last well its just the pain of beating the bar down

there is nothing wrong with the pair you have made ,, at school we constantly dip our tongs into the bosh -quench tank to keep them cool, to stop them deforming and also to not have the heat start to burn your hands and so you dont singe the nibs of your tongs
as regards to using high carbon steel that doesnt sound good to me sounds like the nibs will crack off eventualy like many bought tongs here ,, one other thing on the issue of tongs which i see with bought tongs is the reins flex and it does my nut in !! so you are squeezing them and getting not much grip on the nib end,, im just a fussy fool!!
regarding quenching blades it depends on the steel you have im not as keyed up as many people on here but i would use water up to something like .5-.6% carbon over be safer with oil
good luck man!!

[MattBower]

Quenchant depends on what sort of steel you're using.

Your tongs are a good first effort but, as hicks suggested, the jaws are too thin. That's why they're bending. Make the next set a good bit thicker.

[ThomasPowers]

As mentioned quenchent is determined by alloy, form and purpose (and personal preference).

However a good general purpose one is vegetable oil; either bought fresh or recycled from a fast food joint. Fumes tend to be less toxic than motor oil...

Pre-warming the oil makes it a bit faster, (sounds backwards but heating the oil lowers it's viscosity and so it can carry heat away faster through convection that way)

[son_of_bluegrass]

When it comes to hammers, I see a lot of recommendations for 2 lbs or heavier. That is fine if you are use to swinging a hammer, if not something lighter may be a better starting point.
I like charcoal. But the local club did a bulk buy and I got a ton of coal for 150 $US. Coal and charcoal have almost the same BTU's based on weight. But as charcoal is much less dense, you be feeding the fire more and it will seem like you are using a lot more charcoal. And by volume you are burning more, but by weight you're burning about the same.
As for quenchants, I avoid motor oil. There are all kinds of additives to improve it for running in an engine. I don't want to breath any of that. I use old cooking oil. Still not good for you to breathe the vapors but I don't think it is as bad as motor oil.

As has been mentioned, look for your closest ABANA affiliate (or other local club) and join it. You may find people selling tools, a source of coal and will certainly find people willing to share their knowledge.

ron

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Thanks Harold. You can find out more about the NorthWest Blacksmith Association at blacksmith.org.

[HWHII]

Thanks Harold. You can find out more about the NorthWest Blacksmith Association at blacksmith.org.

Your Welcome!