Can gold be added to steel?

[ThomasPowers]

but we already know "Go not to the Elves for advice for they will say both Yea and Nay!"

It's nice when an author does try to get details right---nothing like a major blooper to help kill the "willing suspension of disbelief"; but note that even Tolkien created a totally *new* material for special use that as fantasy could pretty much do whatever he wanted rather than trying to twist know alloys into ways they they are known NOT to work.

[Old N Rusty]

sir , Powers. I know what you mean John Steinbeck, in "east of Eden " had a fragrant garden ot azaelias in bloom , the beauties we are growing here have no aroma . perhaps he got the shrubberies from the" Knights Of NIK" renowned collectors of lovely bushy things, if i may stray a little off topic, what IS the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

[ThomasPowers]

African or European? (actually the barn swallows are back here and trying to encourage his mate to choose one of the mud nests on the side of our house under the porch roof. I saw them this morning for the first time this year on my way out to the pickup to go to work. I'll happily trade hosing down the porch a couple of times this summer for their bug removal services. )

And BTW I do know the capital of Assyria and my favorite colour!

Must be Friday!

[Old N Rusty]

cute birds, like swifts only faster, hard to bowhunt.

[Bentiron1946]

Perhaps the firearm in question could be "fire guilded". :huh:

[ThomasPowers]

My favorite example is in Sword of Shanara; where the party has been broken up and the "ranger" is separated from the rest of the party in the forest; but he has no worries he's a *ranger* and so can hunt for food with his bow while traveling point to point in the forest and sets out "Whistling and Singing".

There is a term for bowhunters who whistle and sing while hunting---they are called "starving". Forests are not good game places either, worse if you are going point to point. Ruined the book for me.

On the other hand: when an author gets the fiddly details right for something you know you are much more likely to give them a pass when they discuss something you don't.

[basher]

have a look at the work of UK knife maker Grace Horne

http://www.gracehorne.co.uk/

she has mad knives with steel and precious metals .
tis good (great) work......

[Sam Salvati]

knifemaker Ariel Salaverria will braze into his damascus, find it on his site:

http://www.aescustomknives.com/

I imagine you could do it with gold but very expensive.

[Chancellor]

According to this site :http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/mechanics/Workshop-Receipts-3/Iron-Alloys.html

Gold produces toughness, and a yellow colour; this alloy is used for small iron castings. It doesn't give a percent of alloy though.
3 parts iron and 1 of gold enter into fusion together at a temperature inferior to that necessary for melting iron; equal parts of the 2 metals give, by fusion, a greyish mass, somewhat brittle, and attracted by the magnet; with 6 parts gold and 1 of iron, a white alloy is obtained, which is attracted by the magnet, ductile while cold, and at a moderate heat becomes yellow, red, and blue; 9 of iron and 1 of gold form an alloy which resists the file, unless previously subjected to a red heat; with 28 of iron and 8 of gold, the alloy is as white as pure silver, and more yielding under the fire and hammer than ductile' iron. According to Hatchett, the alloy formed with 11 parts gold and 1 of iron is very ductile, of great resisting power, and harder than gold. Without any preparation, it can readily be cut into blocks, laminated, or struck into medals. This alloy is of a pale yellowish-grey colour, approaching dirty white.

----------------------------
Allow me to provide a disclaimer that I am not knowledgeable in anything concerning this matter except google, so I cannot vouch for the accuracy.

[MattBower]

If you go to the TOC for the book, it's clear that he's talking about cast iron, which is a very different material from steel. Even so, I'm very suspicious of that info.

[Chancellor]

I had considered that possibility, but when I read the separate section about cast iron and saw that he talked about forging not only that particular Iron-Gold alloy (the 28:8 mix), but also a number of the other alloys, I wasn't quite sure. Thanks for taking a look at it though.

[MattBower]

You're right that he does talk about forging some of those alloys, I didn't read far enough. Pehaps it does have some kind of benefit, even in wrought iron or steel -- but my guess is that there's a reason you don't see gold-iron alloys used for their mechanical properties in modern metallurgy. If gold does impart an improvement in one or more properties, I suspect they've found much cheaper ways to achieve the effect.

[Chancellor]

I'm sure it would have more to do with the fact that a pound of this alloy would cost 6200 USD. However, like you I have been a tad skeptical about the source. From everything I've heard, 1906 had some really wacky metallurgy. Though he is accurate to most of the other alloys, it seems.

[kpotter]

There are lots of books on metalurgy just about every thing that can be mixed together has been, there is a book by oppi untract that lists alloys and properties. Lots of jewelers have played around with alloys of gold, I used to sit at my bench and melt scarps of stuff together to see what would happen. Sometimes you get something cool but most of the time the stuff wont go together. Steven kretchemer has done lots of crazy alloys with gold and platinum. Look up his work he is a very famous contempory jeweler he died a few years ago but his writings on alloys are still around.

[Francis I]

Interesting subject, I also had an idea for a book where the gold would be casted (mixed with iron) instead of iron into piano harps (plates). Actually I started believing that it is possible and thought that it is actually a good way to hide gold in plain sight. But it appears to be not so easy to achieve from what I read here or maybe it is not considering how much gold could be used. Maybe it would not even be mixed with iron, but not sure if the gold may be too soft to hold string tension. I did see couple of piano plates that looked like they bended  Since I most likely won't write that book, I'm sharing the idea so someone who can write well can use it  I would however like to know if such thing is possible. Pressure created by strings is over 15 tons but there are support studs under the plate and soundboard. 

[ThomasPowers]

The question being What do you expect it to add to the qualities wanted for a piano and you realize it might make it WORSE than what is currently used.   I do recall that some of the Japanese temple bells were cast with prayers inscribed on bullion strips added supposedly increasing the resonance.  However I doubt you WANT a piano harp to resonate; leave that to the sound board!