pkrankow Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 Done. I am well below 90 minutes, but over 60. 20-30 minutes of forge time, hand crank grinder time of about 20 minutes, and another 20 minutes with a spokeshave and a piece of red oak firewood for the handle. About 10 minutes with a hone and it removes hair from my arm. I am sure I can get it a lot sharper than this without a lot of effort. Parent material was automotive coil spring, and after loosing the extra material for the handle I water quenched in ice water (snow melt) for hardening with excellent results. Oven tempered 2 hour at 300F, 2 hour at 350F. LOA 8 inches, handle is about 3 7/8 and blade is about 4 1/8. Hidden tang self wedged into the hot fitted socket. I couldn't get it apart to epoxy, but I didn't try too hard either. It will not pull apart with my bare hands. My new forge based on an 8 inch Chevy Cavalier brake drum, 1 1/2 inch plumbing burning lump charcoal. I have all choices of fuel now (charcoal, corn, coal (Thanks Santa)) I am having problems rotating the image today sorry. Caliper is set at 3 inches. I do not expect to have a chance to make a second entry. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Hey Phil, that looks a lot more appealing to the eye than mine does, that's for sure. Nice job !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chichi Posted December 28, 2010 Author Share Posted December 28, 2010 Phil, Good job. You met all of the criteria. Can you expand on your sharpening technique. I find that I must grind at least a .5 in.wide primary bevel to get an acute angle that will hone to hair shaving sharpness. Also, what kind of a tool rest do you use that allows you to crank with one hand and control the blade with the other and get a good edge in short amount of time? Thanks, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Phil, Good job. You met all of the criteria. Can you expand on your sharpening technique. I find that I must grind at least a .5 in.wide primary bevel to get an acute angle that will hone to hair shaving sharpness. Also, what kind of a tool rest do you use that allows you to crank with one hand and control the blade with the other and get a good edge in short amount of time? Thanks, Bob I just cranked right handed, and guided left handed using the tool rest for my left hand and not the blade for the final passes. The first few passes I used the tool rest like usual, and had to correct a wavy bevel. I worked in sections before putting the handle on. This grinder is very easy to get to speed and it is well lubricated. The stone keeps RPM for several seconds after getting it going. I want a larger primary bevel, but without using the belt grinder its not happening (no electricity). I tried draw filing, and this steel is too hard. I figure I can go back and regrind the blade later, after judging. It cuts hair off the arm, but I wouldn't try really shaving with it I only honed it to my most coarse stone and did not go finer. With about another hour of hone time this would be much, much better. The bevel is not as narrow as I would like, but is a good angle. I need to hone the whole bevel because there is no secondary bevel. The angle is not any different than the secondary bevel on some of my pocket knives. A double bevel is very desirable but not necessary to get good sharpness. I dislike the appearance of a single bevel, even on fully ground kitchen knives where it is most functional. The handle is "as shaved" with a spoke shave with no additional finishing besides lightly sanding the saw cut ends. In my experience the finish produced by a spoke shave, block plane, scraper, or draw knife will be better than if sanded to profile, unless you go through the whole sand and burnish routine to very fine grits. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chichi Posted January 1, 2011 Author Share Posted January 1, 2011 Just a reminder that you should submit pic's of your one hour wonders by this Sun. eve. Dont let Phil win uncontested. Good luck, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Care to try this again with a longer running event? Say entries due the week after Easter so spring break people get a chance at this? Same rules. I'll kick in for an IFI T-shirt for a winner. I was also thinking that stock removal to thin the blade was a problem for me, and I never though of HOT filing the primary bevels in. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I shall try and spare a hour tomorow . san mai pure iron and 1095 with a socket handle is my idea . I have timed the forge weld and it takes 3 min from first hit so .......I am assuming that using flat stock for the centre of a san mai wouild not be considered cheating ? I think pure iron will make all the forging and shaping a lot easier . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Not sure why there were not more entries, but it sure seems to me that Phil wins this hands down. This for sure was a wonderful idea and will most certainly get alot more folks out to the forge. Maybe a repeat contest is in order and It may be a good idea to Post a list of the simple rules and deadline for submitting an entry. The idea of the end of easter week counds like something to consider. Thanks for gettting this going Chi chi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Not sure why there were not more entries, but it sure seems to me that Phil wins this hands down. Aww man !! Rich obviously didn't see my sweet "micro-beater" :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Aww man !! Rich obviously didn't see my sweet "micro-beater" That is a sweet little blade. If you made it with a different shape it would be an excellent mini boning knife with that flex. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 The original rules: Are there enough people interested in the challenge? Two categories and goal is 60 minutes for a blade and any kind of functional handle. Beginning smith and experienced smith are the two categories.Over 90 minutes is a no go.Time does not have to be continuous. You can break for lunch or whatever, and annealing time is not counted. Time begins at the first hammer blow Post time used to complete the knife.The forging must begin from round or square stock. Flat stock would be way too easy. It must cut hair, be at least .5 in wide somewhere in the blade area and at least 3 in long and no more than 6 in long and heat treated.No electricity used (except for the blower) but any other mechanical means are acceptable.Function over pretty and rough is good as long as the blade is useable.Integral,hidden tang,wrapped or any other handle acceptable if comfortable enough to use. Entries need to be submitted by this or next two weekends after that. At least 4 contestants or no competition. A modest gift financed by me for each category winner. Two submissions allowed per contestant. This is intended to be educational and fun for participants and members. Be safe, better to cheat than get hurt. Look at previous posts for more info. Indicate your intention to compete by this Sun eve so we know if there will be a sanctioned competition.Good luck and have fun. I have improved my sharpening skills making a few knives in order to see if it can be done. It can,with a little luck or skill. I propose these changes: Sunday May 1 is the weekend after Easter, so I propose Monday May 2 at 11:59 PM the cutoff for posting completed blades. Please specify your timezone as I believe it is "corrected" by IFI's software. Show your intention to participate by posting progress and finished pictures. You can make more than two knives and withdraw earlier entries, Edit the post to indicate it is withdrawn, but please do not delete your entry pictures. Limit 2 knives for judging per person. If there are enough entries a judging poll thread will be set up so all of IFI can judge. (We may need Glenn's help with this) Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_bluegrass Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I had intended to get one done. I even did a couple of experimental pieces, one from re-bar the other from something too mild to harden. One of them will become my entry for the local clubs February trade item (this month it's a letter opener). I had some other things I wanted to work on first and didn't make it to a knife for this. Since this post started about 3 weeks prior to the end of the contest and there was some time discussing the rules, there was something under 3 weeks for the contest. I think a month from the official start of the contest should be enough time for most people (maybe not those who work outside in winter). Maybe 6 weeks. Here is a picture of one of the experiments. This one had been a piece of re-bar. As I said it isn't a knife (no edge holding capabilities) but it shows what my intentions was. ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I really wanted to do this, but I just got too busy-and tired- to get the forge fired up. Spent my whole time off from work running my forklift around on my property getting things organized. Still have a bunch to do yet. Maybe next time. Maybe do a contest like racing for pinks. The winner gets everyone else's knives :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 The only thing I didn't like about this challenge is that the sharpening time is included... I like the part about starting from round or square to maximize hand forging. But to get the edge fast without using my crank grinder I knew I had to get the steel as thin as possible as quickly as possible, basically "minimizing" the forging (aka-the part of bladesmithing I like most) time to get more sharpening time in. Which in a way, sort of defeats the purpose. If the objective is to go without electricity, why allow electric blowers ? Since I'm sure crank blowers are much more common than crank grinders...not a huge deal for me as I DO have a hand crank grinder...but it just doesn't seem fair for the guys who don't. Maybe that's why we only had two blades finished. I'd rather see a 20-30 mins forging time limit, then sharpen with only files and hand stones outside of the time limit. Or you could just say "no stock removal except for edge grinding" or something to that effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 One more thing...in my opinion, to get that nice razor sharp shaving edge, it's all in the hand-work with fine grit anyways. You're not getting a shaving sharp knife with the grinding wheels I have at my disposal So is the objective here to make ugly razors ? Or quick, useful, no-frills cutting tools ? Just wondering so I know what I'm doing next time around ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Hot filing can remove a lot of stock very quick...I just failed to think about it while doing my knife. It is safe to say that belt grinders are more advanced shop equipment. Bench grinders are a lot more common. Hand crank grinders are probably less common than bench grinders. Electric drills are very common, but drill presses are no so common. The spirit should be to use tools that are common for a hobbyist to have. I only have an electric blower for the solid fuel forge, and if a blown propane forge user wants in, then they also require electricity for the blower. I agree the purpose it to forge and hand work the blade to shape, not stock removal. The time limit is a funny thing that I am not fully comfortable with, even though I had no problem with the hand tools I have. I spent a lot more time on finishing operations than on forging the knife in the first place. The sharpness requirement is not shaving sharp; an hour or two of hone time may not be enough for many of us to get there. Quick useful cutting tools is the spirit. Maybe we need a different test that is easy to show the results. Folded paper? Cereal box? Denim rag? Sharpen a stick of thumb caliper? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I agree with "the spirit" !! Though I was working under one of the original rules that is must cut hair or something like that... It's like that story I always see repeated in the forums about the honed beer can shaving hair...but that doesn't mean it's going to function very well as a knife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 well I managed to put a little forge time away and I must admit I am used to power tools!!!not sure if I am happy with my 45 minutes of forging , I think I prefer my power hammers and linisher and spending the time the job needs. but so far san mai 1095 and pure iron forge welded in coke forge and forged to shape with socket handle . I could certainly ht it and sharpen it in another 20 to 30 mins or so ...but ....I am not certain I would be happy with the result as a finished product . anyhow just for the sake of having tried..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 WOW nice job! I would never have thought you could make san mai and a blade out of it that quickly. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 the forge welding is very very fast (its only a 3 inch weld . and pure iron has a very high working range . the only problem with it is that the differing relative softness of the pure iron makes it smear over thew steel core . I flattened the blade then hot chisel the shape out and cleaned it up with hot filing . Hot filing is a great technique to re visit . not done it in years . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chichi Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Basher, Fabulous forging job! I thought I was pretty good but you may have me beat. The socket is even more impressive than the blade (which is also excellent). Terrific work. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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