Fly Press or Power Hammer

[kraythe]

I have been debating getting a fly press or Power Hammer for the shop. Basically I want to get one because working with large steel has become rather a chore manually without a press. I have been pounding old jackhammer bits into hardie shafts and once you get them swaged, they work awesome. However, its multiple heats and a massive amount of work to do it by hand especially with the small anvil I have.

Now I thought about a fly press because my neighbors complain about the pounding which means I cant forge later at night and often that is the only time I get to swing a bit away from family duties. I investigated shooting the neighbors as a possibility but the stupid bleeding hearts say its illegal or something. So new tooling is on the menu.

A power hammer would be much more expensive (like 2 to three times) to get a production tool but I don't know if there is a lot I couldn't do with the fly press that I could do with the hammer. I could potentially build one I guess for a grand or so. Sure the hammer might be faster and sexy but then I would be back in the "bloody neighbor is pounding again" late at night.

Another potential idea is some kind of hydraulic press but I don't have an air compressor and the ones i have seen at harbor freight would require air or a heck of a lot of manual pumping. Furthermore, the noise again might be a problem.

Another potential idea is to take a screw jack and shove it into a press frame. A 20 ton jack doesn't seem very costly and I am sure i could overbuild the frame enough but then speed of operation makes me wonder if that is worth it as well.

So that brings me back to Fly press. I am sorry for rambling a bit. What I was wondering is what size press I would need for hot forging, straightening and smashing cable damascus billets and pressing large steel. There are a couple offered by Pieh Tool but the right size that I would need is something I dont know. I could possibly scrape enough for the big one (tax refund permitting) but do I really need a number 6 for the work that I will be doing with it?

So any comments on this, admittedly, rambling post?

[kpotter]

If I had to choose between a power hammer and a fly press I would pick the power hammer but they make a lot of noise so neighbors are mad now get a powerhammer. i would pick a hydraulic forging press I have built several small ones and now I am building a 50ton. They are relativly quite and cost about the same as either the power hammer or the flypress.

[JNewman]

A manual flypress is a very useful tool but is not the tool for drawing out, you are not going to get more energy out of the press than you put in. A power hammer is a much more versatile tool but is usually as loud or louder than hand hammering, unless your anvil rings a lot. If you go with a power hammer go with one with the heaviest anvil and frame possible. Mass deadens the noise.
Hydraulic presses have an annoying whine that may bother your neighbours more than the hammering. A powered flypress would seem to me to be the quietest way to go but is not cheap.

[bottles]

The main issue I can see is that you want to forge after 9pm or at weekends. A power hammer will do the forging but not help with the neighbours. Hydraulic press or large fly press seems like the way forward.
No idea what fly press costs where you are but would only be affordable 2nd hand = time+ right price/distance.
Hydraulics leave you with two options. Air over hydraulics vs full hydralic. air over hydraulic seems a cheap home solution to solve this problem. Dowan side is the cost of compressors and the speed/force. Video's I've seen dont look as though they would be economicla for your size of work.
Full hydraulics look as though they will have all the power you want to engineer into the system. Have a look around here or on Youtube for ideas of what hydraulic press's can do. They weem to have low noise and huge capacity. The press's I've seen have been old proffessional 150TON+ very quiet compared to power hammers.
Have you seen Batesons book or versions of C or H frame press's? These versions seem affordable if you can do the welding yourself. But may be outside your present price bracket.
Try and see if you can see and try a few power hammers and different types of press's. This will teach you a lot of whats possible and the noise produced and any issues re foundations and pros and cons.
Another route is to look at rolling mills. The Mcdonald rolling mill is designed to be home made and draw out stock. If you are working damscus this might be worth looking at.
Andrew

[Dodge]

For the neighbors who complain: Shooting them usually ends badly. Others would complain about THAT noise and it just gets messy from there. A better solution would be to make them something pretty and perhaps the sound would not be so annoying to them knowing what beauty the sound yields. It doesn't have to be big; perhaps a simple leaf key ring or fancy S-hook or two. They might then think of the sound as pleasant after the right "positive reinforcement". Honey always seems to work better for calming the restless natives than vinegar
Scott

[Ric Furrer]

Kray,
I think you need a hydraulic press..full hydraulic. Anything from 16-24 ton would be more than enough for what you say you do.
Go to a blacksmith gathering where you can see them being used and use them yourself.
Failing that have a look around youtube. I have a few videos of my 45 ton unit on my site as well.

I am a firm believer in hydraulics (and hammers and fly presses), but the specifications you have put out seem to lead to hydraulics as the solution.
They are small, powerful,relatively quiet for the work they do (some machines depending upon the pumps and couplings between the motor and pump can be anything from whisper quite to a full scream).
All things being equal I do not think any other machine puts a range of work into the hands of the average smith as well as hydraulic presses.

That said there are several ways to build and power the cylinder movement and the choices you make can give speed and silence at a price.

As a general suggestion I say go use someone's set-up.
Note the ram diameter and stroke length as well as pressure, speed (usually in inches per minute), motor Hp and rpm and the pump gallons per minute.
I'd rather have a smaller press running faster inches per minute of travel than a large press moving slowly. Anything less than about 0.3 inches per second is not a forging tool and some have presses running at a bit over one inch per second.
There are booklets out on building these tools and several folk who make them for sale.

I have a 3B Nazel pneumatic hammer and a 50 weight Molach mechanical hammer as well as 45 ton and 25 ton hydraulic presses. I would like to get a large friction screw press (150-300 ton) and am building a 140 ton hydraulic press this Winter.
Each tool has its uses and within those uses there is cross-over...two machines may do the same job equally well, but at some point one proves better at one thing vs another. Sometimes this comes down to wear and tear on you (arms from concussion, ears from noise, lower back from lifting..whatever) and sometimes it is the neighbors being angry from sound or vibration.

Ric

[ThomasPowers]

A screw press is still working off your own power and while it can concentrate it, you are still the source and with your own limitations.

Working heavy stock you want to have something *else* supplying the power and you supply the control.

While the power hammer is probably the most versatile, your site limitations are a down check for it.

Try to find a quiet hydraulic press