New to welding

[BM454]

Agreed!! If I'm welding, odds are I'm gonna be using my torch at some point. Most of the time before I even start the welder. A good set of torches is a MUST have item in the shop.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

I cannot recall ever running a bead with OA. I have used it for brazing, silver soldering, heating, and cutting.

I started with Arc, then Mig, and Tig.

My welders; Lincoln SP-100 110V mig, Lincoln 250 mig, Miller 200 mig, Miller MP65E 650A mig, Miller 250 Tig, and Linde UCC-305 350A tig. I also have several sets of Victor torches in various sizes. I also have 2 fully self contained plastic welders.

Don't be dissin the 110V migs I have done a ton of work with my SP-100. With proper weld preps I have done thicker sections, including an aluminum transmission bellhousing. It all comes down to proper use of the tools, for the intended application. It is also easily transported,and works in more places than a 220V machine due to 110V's availability in more places.

If you cannot see your puddle than you need a better lens in your hood. That was the biggest help in my training. The correct lens allowed me to see exactly what I was doing. I have welded all positions out at the college, and seeing what you are doing is paramount in getting a good weld.

If I was starting someone I would start with Mig. Why? So they have some success from the start. You don't teach a kid to fish for Muskies first, you go for Crappies. You don't start with a .410, you start with a 12, or 20ga. Once they get some successful time in then it would be on to another method. Arc can be rough for some beginners. I find Tig to be very user friendly since you have so much control over the heat. When I look at a job I think Tig, Mig, Arc, in that order. I love my Tig welder,and use it the most.

[Francis Trez Cole]

My 2 cents I use a hobart handler 175 have had it for 6 years with the addition of a spool gun I do aluminium. it is a good machine parts my welding supply shop stockes them all miller parts. I can weld steel stainless steel and aluminum 1/4" in a single pass. the problems with welders the run on 110V is duty cycle. Mine runns on 220 and I can weld all day with it just feed it wire and gas

[Dodge]

I dont know if I would reccomend torch welding to a newbie to welding. A torch is a great thing to have around the shop though.

A good mig welder is cheap and can use fluxcore wire for better penetration. Stay away from 120v machines as they wont have the umph you want. I use a Lincoln 180HD with .045 flux core wire most of the time. Just learn the diff between a pretty weld and a good one.

When I learned to weld in tech school, we started with oxy/acetylene welding as it was the best way to learn the "puddling" of molten metal, and yes, run beads. Stick was next and finally MIG. I assume the order of electric welding may have been that stick was still more common in the industry back then; especially for outdoor work. Learning to run beads with O/A was important because, at the time, (mid to late 70s) it was still the most common practice in auto body, and exhaust work.

A word about weld bead appearance: While there are many factors concerning weld quality, in general, "pretty" welds are inherently better welds than "ugly" welds. Most of the QA where I used to work was done visually. (Some UT and MPT testing was used in specific cases*) The inspectors could pretty much tell that if your welds were smooth, uniform and of proper dimension as prescribed by the engineers, it was probably a quality weld. On the other hand, if it was ropey looking or under cut at the edges, erratic in size or gassed out (porosity as if the weld metal had boiled) it was clearly, a bad weld. In all my years of production welding, I can't say that I saw a good, ugly weld.

(*UT = Ultrasonic Testing, MPT = Magnetic Particle Testing, also called Magnuflux Testing)

[arftist]

Dodge, I had a boss once I called the master of all trades, jack of none. His was always the last word on every converation, work related or not. The suggestion box had no bottom and was mounted over the trash can.

[Dodge]

Dodge, I had a boss once I called the master of all trades, jack of none. His was always the last word on every converation, work related or not. The suggestion box had no bottom and was mounted over the trash can.

Uhhhh, ok. I'm not sure if you noticed, but I was supporting your argument. As for "the last word", my wife usually has that! :wub:

[arftist]

Uhhhh, ok. I'm not sure if you noticed, but I was supporting your argument. As for "the last word", my wife usually has that!

Sorry Dodge, I wasn't disagreeing.

Your signature reminded me of an old boss. You know, up under your picture where it says jack of all trades, master of none? Pretty off topic I know, just thought it was funny.

[unkle spike]

I debated welders with myself for about 8 months....

I ended up with a Hobart 180 220v machine, and bit the bullet and bought the gas bottle right away. In my opinion flux core has it's place, but once you get the shielding gas, change the polarity and weld with true MIG you will wonder why you would want to flux core.
I have only had my welder trip once for thermal overload in 7 years. For the types of things you describe, tacking, and general use, my Hobart will do all I need. Now they make the 187 amp with 7 amperage settings, and the 210 amp with 7 settings. The initial investment getting what you truly needs far outweighs the frustration of having to sell the old one (at a loss), and buy the new one.

Now keep in mind I am a hobbyist, and my machine does not see full time use like some of the users here.

And as someone here stated, "with the proper metal prep". 75% of a good weld is preparing the joint to weld it.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Unkle Spike said:
The initial investment getting what you truly needs far outweighs the frustration of having to sell the old one (at a loss), and buy the new one.


You would actually sell a tool? That's like saying you are willing to sell your children :blink:

[unkle spike]

I have seen far more 110v welders for sale second hand than welders that actually are suited to our type of work. My point was that if you bought a 110v flux cored HF welder, it would be inadequate and you would eventually sell it to get something more suited to your needs. A tool that does not work is just taking space, and I would sell it in a heartbeat. I don't have any children of my own, so I can't speak as to the selling price of them. :huh:

[pkrankow]

I have seen far more 110v welders for sale second hand than welders that actually are suited to our type of work. My point was that if you bought a 110v flux cored HF welder, it would be inadequate and you would eventually sell it to get something more suited to your needs. A tool that does not work is just taking space, and I would sell it in a heartbeat. I don't have any children of my own, so I can't speak as to the selling price of them.

I agree I see a lot of Harbor Freight 110V welders for sale, I also see a lot of campbell-hausfield 110V welders for sale. They are for sale used at a price very close to buying one new.

I do NOT see a lot of Miller, Lincoln, or Hobart 110V welders for sale. When I see one at a price I can afford they have been gone by the time I call. I know a number of people who have bought one of these brands new, and won't part with them because they work well.

Phil

[Mainely,Bob]

I agree I see a lot of Harbor Freight 110V welders for sale, I also see a lot of campbell-hausfield 110V welders for sale. They are for sale used at a price very close to buying one new.

I do NOT see a lot of Miller, Lincoln, or Hobart 110V welders for sale. When I see one at a price I can afford they have been gone by the time I call. I know a number of people who have bought one of these brands new, and won't part with them because they work well.

Phil

You see them all the time up here.People buy them and see how useful a welder really is(and how limiting a 110 is) and then go out and buy a REAL welder.
Lincoln is the one you see most as they sell them in the big box stores.Saw one unused in the sealed box for $100 less than the selling price,don`t know why he didn`t just bring it back.Must have got it as a gift.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

I for one am not giving up my Lincoln Sp-100. It has done a ton of work for me, and continues to do so. I really like the small gun on this welder for reaching into some areas. I currently use it more now than my 220V welders. At 70# I can hump it around the property,to the basement, and anywhere else I need to go. Can't quite do that with either of the 220V units I have.

It all comes down to the right tool for the job. Small welds like on my 55 gallon drum smithy walls, or welding up some pallets for some plate glass I have, are no problem for my 110V welder. I wouldn't use it to weld up a trailer, or other large sectioned items. Anything up to that the SP-100 is going to work.

My suggestion is get the best welder for what you can afford, even a good used one. Get a name brand that you can get parts, and service for in your area. If you have to start small due to budget, do it. At least you will have some welding capabilities until you get some more green stashed away.

Spike,
I don't have kids either, just a lot of good tools. I try to stay away from second rate tools to avoid having to get rid of them later. I always go for quality first.

[maddog]

I have seen far more 110v welders for sale second hand than welders that actually are suited to our type of work. My point was that if you bought a 110v flux cored HF welder, it would be inadequate and you would eventually sell it to get something more suited to your needs. A tool that does not work is just taking space, and I would sell it in a heartbeat. I don't have any children of my own, so I can't speak as to the selling price of them.

That describes my experience. I bought a Hobart 110V MIG unit. It was great! Could do a surprising amount of work and the 110v meant I could take it anywhere there was a power outlet. But in the end, it wasn't up to my needs in metal shop and I couldnt justify keeping it after I bought a professional class stick welder. My IdealArc 300 is a joy to use. Whatever I want to make, its up for it! It' only limitation, like any stick machine, is thin stuff. But I have that covered with my torch.

I wouldn't consider buying a wire feed or mig from any but the top mfrs. Lincoln, Miller etc. It's far too complicated and fiddly.

As for selling children, they don't fetch much I'm afraid. Tools are always worth money. I got a decent price for the Hobart when I parted with it. :lol:

[Hillbillysmith]

I'm going to have to agree with others in the fact that 1) to each their own... Only get a machine that is going to suit your needs. If you're just doing backyard garage basic repairs, then a simple 120v flux cored machine is probably going to suffice just fine. 2) preparation of material to be welded is key and every bit of 75% of what's important. Yes, 120v machines have a smaller duty cycle but they work just fine whether it's 16 gauge material or 1 inch material. I don't know about anybody else, and I'm certainly not trying to brag, but I could pass almost any weld test with a 120v machine 99.9% of the time. I have helped build my friend's boiler and we build the entire thing with his cheapo Home Depot special Lincoln 180HD 120v flux cored machine and we were welding 1/8 inch to 3/4 inch material.

I can see both arguements of why a newbie should/shouldn't start off with a torch outfit. Yes, an O/A setup is a little more dangerous than other processes, and is (to some people) a harder to master than say MIG or flux core. But, on the other hand, I agree on the part that starting with an O/A kit it teaches better heat input control, puddle control, 2 hand manipulation, patients, it's very versatile, portable to all get out, etc.... I, having graduated Hobart Institute, would reccommend starting with the O/A process especially if you're wanting to get into welding as a career. But, if you just want a welding machine around the garage for simple repairs, flux core is the way to be.

Best of luck,
-Hillbilly


P.S;
-Happy Holidays!! :)