Medieval Lump Anvil

[Lucas]

So I'm trying to make an anvil from a lump of low carbon steel. I know this is less than ideal, but seemingly low carbon steel was all that was available back in the day (WAY back in the day...) Anyway, I have a 4x4x12" piece of A36 steel. As far as I understand (and that probably isn't very far) the surface will eventually work harden, but is there a way to heat and harden the working surface to start with. (usually you need a higher carbon content right?) The goal is to use it up on end so having a 4x4" working area. Does anyone have suggestions? Any luck hardening A36 to any degree? Thanks!

[ThomasPowers]

Ahhh in medieval times they were working real wrought iron and wrought iron derived steels not "low carbon steels". Real wrought iron is worked at very high temps making it VERY soft and so a cold wrought iron anvil with work hardening was sufficient---the roman and viking ones I have seen show no sign of having a higher carbon steel face welded on---which is what they did in the last couple of hundred years to make for a harder face to work off of.

A36 can sometimes gain some hardness through the use of Super Quench, but for an anvil sized object you would need quite a lot of force to get through the steam jacket.

I would suggest either hardfacing with an arc welder, or working *HOT* and letting the face work harden smoothing out the dings with a nicely dressed hammer as needed

Or working with an alloy that can be quenched hardened.

[southernforge]

You could try "Superquench" see: http://www.anvilfire.com/FAQs/quenchants.htm

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

I don't think even super-quench would have much effect on a 4" square cross-section. Super-quench is faster than water, but a section this size won't quench very fast no matter what you do.

Research I've only recently been involved in indicates that they wouldn't have actually had what we think of as wrought iron. Most so-called iron was made by the "direct process". Everything I see indicates that the product from a bloomery could vary quite a bit in carbon content. The bloom was separated into lumps and worked to consolidate it and expel slag and contaminants. Each piece would be judged for carbon by its workability. It would certainly exhibit the expected "wrought" character, but would not be the near zero carbon product that would later come from the Walloon process or from puddling cast iron. Probably should start a thread on ancient iron/steel. Sorry for the hijack.

[Lucas]

Hmm... that's interesting. So, until I start smelting my own iron....(it will probably happen one day) Just admit that I have a lump of modern steel that needs something more. Is finding somewhere to weld on a hardenable plate an option, or even worth the effort? Is allowing it to work harden and learn on it for a while a viable plan before I can afford an actual anvil and reasonable option or am I being dumb? I would love to see a thread on historic iron/steel and methods etc., but I'm a nerd like that. :)

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

I'd say radius the edges, stand it up and start pounding on it. Worse things have been used as anvils. If you get some scars in it, dress them up and go back to work.

[kpotter]

I am building a couple of hornless anvils. I had them cut out of 4 inch plate they will be faced with an h13 plate and have the look of an old anvil. I have them on my shaper right now flattening out the tops and bottoms, they are about 100lbs each.

[dablacksmith]

i have a friend who made one of these anvils .. forge welded a pile of 1x4 wrought iron bars together then forge welded a steel plate on top . there is even a video of this

not sure if link will work but is is titled forgeing a wrought iron anvil. good luck

[bajajoaquin]

I've spent some time looking at how to harden the face of mild steel (you can search on my user name to find some of the threads). You have three options:

1) Carburize or case harden the face. Nobody with deep knowledge has determined that this would be a good and/or cost-effective idea
2) Weld a hard or hardenable steel plate on top. One of the members here did that with an anvil, grinding away to form a deep channel on each side of a central ridge, and had very good results.
3) Apply hard-facing wire to the face. There's an anvil restoration article on the interweb that uses this method and another anvil that was built here doint it. Rod is the easiest to find. The I Forge Iron member did it by TIG, and MIG is available, which is what I am going to be using.

Face-hardening wire is about $15/lb, with a minimum purchase of 10 lb. I would imagine that stick rod and filler rod would be similar. So why are you doing this? Your steel plate weighs about 55 lb, and if you add a plate, or hard-face it, you'll be around 60 lb. You're talking about significant expense and effort for a small anvil.

If, like me, you want to do it for the sake of doing it, that's reason enough. But if you're looking for a cheap way to be striking iron at home, I'd put your money and time into an effective stand and hold-down, keep it cheap, use what you have, and keep looking for other options.

[Lucas]

Alright one more stupid question before I start banging on my hunk of metal. What precisely do you mean by "radius" the edge (I'm picturing measuring the diameter and dividing it in half, and that doesn't seem very useful at all)? I searched the internet and can't seem to find an explanation.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Just means rounding the edges. You might leave one edge sharp, but generally you don't want sharp edges.

[ThomasPowers]

I've been a bloomery thrall for about 15 years now using the short stack Scandinavian bloomery method. If you want to start a discussion I'm all for it!

I'd suggest you read "The Knight and the Blast Furnace", "Metallography of Early Ferrous Edge Tools and Edged Weapons" and "The Celtic Sword" as a good starter.

[Lucas]

Thanks for the reply about radiusing. That's what I suspected radiusing was but couldn't find something that confirmed it.

I'll have to put those books on my Amazon wishlist with all my other blacksmithing books.

[kpotter]

Great video that looks like alot of work. I am going to use my press to do the shaping and squeezing but if I had a big enough hammer I would do it like that, it looks like a ton of fun, the heat coming off that thing must have been intense. I love all the old videos from the library of congress that shows the smiths hammering on huge hot chunks of iron.

[ThomasPowers]

You'd do better trying to ILL them from your local public library if you live in the USA!-----Save you about $500+ (and one I've had on a multiyear booksearch on amazon without finding a copy)

[maddog]

.... Probably should start a thread on ancient iron/steel....

That would be good.

[pkrankow]

A follow up on dressing the anvil...although your anvil will be quite different!
http://anvilfire.com/article.php?bodyName=/FAQs/anvil_radius.htm&titleName=anvilfire.com%20Blacksmithing%20FAQs%20Anvils%20Radius

Phil

[Lucas]

Awesome, that's quite helpful, I think I'll apply a sharp edge and a large, medium, and small radius on my 4 corners of my "anvil" probably more work than it's worth, but it should be fun!

[Rhyfelwr]

I have been using a peice of 12"x3" round bar steel as my anvil for a while now and it seemed to work just fine set on end sunk into a stump. The edges rounded off after a while and the face mushroomed a bit in 2 years..

I just recently bought myself a 113# Hay-Budden and am now realizing what I was missing!