What does it mean to be a Blacksmith?

[Marksnagel]

Great response Jerry. You've summed it up nicely.

Mark<><

[maddog]

First off I do not think any metal working process is appropriate for a blacksmith. Is getting your scrolls water jet cut from plate blacksmithing? Is having it cast from aluminum blacksmithing? Is using a 3d Printer to build up the part from metal powder and sintering it in an oven blacksmithing. Is buying a bunch of components from a catalog and welding it together blacksmithing? Is turning tappers on a lathe then wrapping it around a form blacksmithing? Is useing a Hebo machine blacksmithing? These are all things I have seen done to duplicate forge work.

Secondly the statement "If blacksmiths had X tool back in the day they would have used it" Well they did have those tools because they were the ones who invented them for the most part. and they did use them. Most old time blacksmiths became other things as technology changed they went where the work was. They became mechanics, welders, factory workers, steel workers, horseshoers ornamental iron workers Etc... Blacksmithing almost died out in this country for the middle part of the 20th century. It only revived because people took interest in "old ways of working metal"

Definition of BLACKSMITH : a smith who forges iron (Webster)

I agree with Webster that blacksmithing is about forging iron. If the main focus of your work is forging hot iron then you are blacksmithing. If in the process you include other methods, this doesnt negate the fact that you are a smith. A smith might use a hacksaw, he might do some cold bending or chiseling, none of which are forging hot iron, why shouldnt he include arc welding plasma cutting, pressing? And why shouldn't he buy some parts ready made? Is he not a smith because he buys rivets and tongs, hinges or lock parts ready made? Even in colonial days, some smiths specialized in making parts and selling them to other smiths to include in their work. Sometimes too, blacksmiths made and included turned pieces in their work. But if all he does is buy parts and arc weld them with perhaps a little bit of hot hammering to taper and bend scroll ends before putting them in the bender, then sure, the focus of his work is not forging hot iron and I agree that's not blacksmithing.

We would have to ask the people involved in reviving smithing in the US what their actually motives were. I suspect they were various. When I took Turley's class I dont recall him saying it was out of a desire to reenact a historical craft. (Turley is considered a major figure in the blacksmithing renaissance in the US). For myself and many others, the attraction of blacksmith work is to forge hot iron and to be able to make tools. Why should this craft be frozen in time while others are allowed to progress? People talk about a "revival" of blacksmithing but in fact it was never dead. It has been practised without interruption in the US, Europe and the almost the entire world . Sure it lost its prominence and became somewhat marginalized but it was always alive and progressing.

Many top smiths use arcwelding in their work. Schirmler in his book Werk un Werkzeug expressly states that arc welding is acceptable if the look is appropriate for the piece. Francis Whittaker said almost exactly the same thing. I watched Turley work on a piece he was making for a customer in Arizona and he used some arc welding along the way. Gunter too uses some arc welding in his work. Other smiths include, wood, stone copper and other materials in their work even though these elements are not produced by smithing. Why shouldnt there be some plasma cut elements as well if he judges the look to be appropriate?

There is a strong historical element in smithing but that is not the whole story. There is such a thing as modern blacksmithing. It is still about forging hot iron but it uses modern metalworking techniques as an important auxilary to the core process.

[monstermetal]

"First off I do not think any metal working process is appropriate for a blacksmith. Is getting your scrolls water jet cut from plate blacksmithing? Is having it cast from aluminum blacksmithing? Is using a 3d Printer to build up the part from metal powder and sintering it in an oven blacksmithing. Is buying a bunch of components from a catalog and welding it together blacksmithing? Is turning tappers on a lathe then wrapping it around a form blacksmithing? Is useing a Hebo machine blacksmithing? These are all things I have seen done to duplicate forge work"

I agree with you Timothy... None of those things are "blacksmithing" And the person doing the waterjet cutting or standing in front of the Hebo machine is most likely not a blacksmith nor would he call himself one...

I find this a very tough subject and understand your point of view. I also think it is valid for the most part.


If I worked on my car today I would not call myself mechanic .... If I had to try and land a plane I wouldn't call myself a pilot. And I would not call myself a Tinsmith or a machinist as a "title" maybe a welder or fabricator which I honestly see as as a subset of blacksmith... Not all welders are blacksmiths by default.. But every blacksmith must fabricate.. its part of the craft... and if you are making a living as a blacksmith you pretty much are stuck with welding too.... So how do you draw the line? You want to imply that because a person does MORE with metal than you that they are not privy to the title of Blacksmith? Owning an anvil does not make you a blacksmith anymore than owning a lathe makes you a machinist. Agreed.. What quantifies a blacksmith is debatable... My opinion is that what I do would be recognized as a "blacksmith" from any person from the 200BC to 1900AD If anyone was transported in time to my shop... if they watched me for an hour... they would say... "Oh... your the Blacksmith!" Its only in the last 100 years that Blacksmith has been relegated to sub sets and criteria that distinguish it from other forms of metal working... Today we romanticize blacksmithing, myself included. We see it as something special and want to keep it to ourselves... Well ok, I also understand there are people who want to latch on the the title "blacksmith" who really are no more a blacksmith than I am a pilot.... I might buy some waterjet cut parts (guilty) or order stuff from a King catalog (guilty) But it does not change the fact that I am the town blacksmith in the flesh.. You may feel that a Blacksmith can only work metal in this ONE way... maybe only on Tuesday when there is a red moon and there is a clear sky... I dont know.. If thats true for you (that a blacksmith only works hot iron, nothing else) then I can respect that... I truly admire those who are lucky and skilled enough to be able to only work hot metal and make a living doing so... I dont wish to take anything away from you or be disrespectful in any way. Yes... Those who earn every penny standing at the anvil (or powerhammer) are Blacksmiths.... How about Grant? (sorry to drag you into this Grant) I spent the day at Grants (boy his wife put on a great spread! She fed us and then some!) and can say I dont think he would not meet your criteria. He has a CNC mill and a EDM machine but no anvil (well there is his fabricated anvil but its not on a stand yet) However Grant is a self professed Sole Occupation Blacksmith (SOB)... He ran for the Board of the NWBA with the message we are a blacksmith group... we should be run by Blacksmiths! I tend to agree..... I can also say at this last conference Grant nominated me to be on the board for the NWBA... Does this make me a blacksmith? No What makes me a blacksmith is that I eat sleep and breath iron... My earn my living in working steel.. Metal is my hobby, my passion and my identity... I am a blacksmith.... You dont have to call me one... matter of fact I know what I am what ever I am called... I would not be offended if called a welder or a fabricator... If I was called a machinist or a tinsmith I would politely correct the person and say "not really" What I am is a blacksmith ;)

[jw223]

I don't think that there is quite the same need for the town Blacksmith as there was, say, 150-200 years ago. Most of us buy a pre-hung door, have pre-made garage door tracks and components, etc. My wife probably would NOT cook out of something I made. That being said, I would consider myself able to do some basic blacksmith-type work. If someone came into any one of your shops, and asked you to build them a spear, and your first thought is; go get a knife, cut the handle off, and arc weld it to a pole, them you are probably not a blacksmith. If however, that same person came to you and said, "Can you weld this knife blade to this pole for me $$?" I think most of us would do it and not think it un-pure, or below us.
I have never had formal training for any Metal working that I do, other than building ductwork. I have taken what I have learned from different people, asked a million questions, and met some really generous willing people. One of my customers was remarking on some of the garden tools I had made from RR spikes and her husband came in and said "you do metal work? Come look at this" He showed me the front bumper from a 1974 Jeep he was restoring. it had a few small dent in it, and he asked me to straighten it up. I said no problem, and took the money. Sure, I didn't need to forge a new one, but it was something that he was unable to do himself.
To me, aspiring to be a blacksmith, is a lifelong goal, and if I can incorperate some other aspects of metal working into a project, so be it. I think the spirit of this thread has been hit on really well by everyone so far. No one has said the same thing, yet you are all Blacksmiths. Hmm...

JW

[ciladog]

Everyone has made valid points except one; it’s not the processes you use to get the job done but it’s your experience that gives you the prerogative to call yourself a blacksmith or a plumber or a cabinetmaker or any other trade. There was a time when those titles meant something. But not anymore.

A hundred years ago if you wanted to be a blacksmith then you worked along side a blacksmith as an apprentice for years to learn the trade. Once you learned then you could strike out on your own and call yourself a blacksmith and people knew that you must have the experience and knowledge to get the job done. Sadly, times have changed and these titles mean nothing to the consumer because there are no standards to go by anymore.

Some trades are licensed or certified today like plumbers, electricians, welders, architect, and home improvement contractors so there are some standards that have to be met to call you these titles but not so with many other trades blacksmiths or cabinetmakers. There is no correlation between the experience and the title. Knowledge of the trade does not equate to experience or work ethic.

I’ll give you an example of what I mean. I have been a high-end cabinetmaker for 37 years running my own business using old school craftsmanship adapting to new processes and materials. Some of my jobs take as much as 18 months to complete. My work is in 6 states and 2 countries. I have paid my dues and I have an excellent reputation among my clients. I have earned the title of cabinetmaker. Often times, metalwork is incorporated in my products whether it is superstructure or design elements hence, my interest in blacksmithing (although that is expanding into other areas).

Well, years back, I hired a greenhorn to help with a big job. We got the job done, delivered it and installed it. He soon wanted a raise and when I said no, he quit. The guy knew nothing about cabinetmaking and was basically an extra pair of hands. He left on OK terms and we remained somewhat friends.

Well he went out and started his own business, bought himself a nice new truck with printing on it that said he was a cabinetmaker. He put up a website that advertised him as a cabinetmaker. And when I perused his gallery of work, it was my work!!

So what’s in a title anyway?

[Mainely,Bob]

For me the big question seems to be do you want to be exclusionary or try to include as much as you can.
It makes no sense to me to say your are NOT something unless you do X.That`s like saying you are not a carpenter or cabinet maker unless you use only hand tools.There`s always been a long line of people who are willing to look down their noses at anyone who does something in a different way than they do.Most of these same folks hold their cards very close to their chests and rarely teach or demonstrate what they know to others.

In the end having the drive and imagination to put a suitable product into the hands of the widest group of customers is what will keep the wolf away from the door,food on the table and the shop open.If you are geographically positioned well enough to have a client base to cover your expenses and show a profit by only doing "traditional" ornamental ironwork and can turn all other work away then more power to you.Congrats,you are a true smith,all day every day!
That does NOT entitle you to hang an opinion or alternate title on anyone who makes rent by picking up what you turn away.
In the end the work gets done and the customer many times can`t tell how something was put together or even what metal it was made from.
I never gave much thought to whether it was a sail or power vessel I was working on.They were yachts to the customers and some of the high dollar yard owners but they were all boats to me.

As for tradition,how many here work only in wrought iron or if we want to draw that line in the sand even further back in time,bronze?
If you`re working steel and buying your material from a large supplier then most small town blacksmiths a century ago would have thought you a poser who didn`t have enough experience to work with what was brought to you or pick an appropriate bit of material out of a salvage pile.The emphasis back then was on fixing things and keeping the community working by whatever means possible and at a rate people could afford.

There are some people who I have done work for who were amazed that someone local could still do blacksmith work.Those same people have told me that they would never have thought to call me a blacksmith as that would have been disrespectful and rude as I was obviously capable of doing so much more than "simple blacksmith work".
Those same folks are equally amazed when I pick up a hand plane or adze and knock out a bit of work in less time than it takes to yank the part and cart it into the joiner`s shop.

Limit yourself to being one thing if you want to,I`ll continue to be a worker in whatever material pleases me or needs repaired at the moment.
I`ll let others decide what to call me as they watch me do the work.The one I strive for most is "craftsman".
In the end the customers and a few observers decide by my actions and the finished product what I am that day.

[Spears]

Let's start with a bit of poetry..

If you throw together some crap,
and your afraid some elderly chap,
is going to slap your flap,
just write yourself a disclaimer,
and try not to sound like "Rap"


Here, let me include an example to get you started.

Important Disclaimer:

The following art piece was constructed using any and all modern day processes available to the builder. Although some blacksmithing techniques were used, in no circumstance should this art piece be used to exhibit or stand for the traditional methods of the craft. Use of such an art piece in any way to define the maker as a blacksmith will result in ridicule and should not be attempted by any owner thereof, past, present and future.

Just have a little fun with it. Your work will define you more than your title. Spears.

[monstermetal]

"Your work will define you more than your title"

a wonderful statement....

And Bob I think you have some great things to say... But I feel quite a bit diffrent.... My feeling that I am a Blacksmith comes from my professional life, the means in which I support myself and my motivations. I feel like Blacksmith is the most appropriate label for what I do.. If I do machine work all day it does not make me a machinist... if I work with wood all day it does not make me a carpenter... It makes me a versatile blacksmith... I am competent and capable in many aspects... but to label me as a "jack of all trades" would diminish my true focus... which is that of a blacksmith

[ThomasPowers]

I used to have the same feeling that I wasn't a "real" smith because I wasn't proficient in a lot of things that an old time smith was.

Then I realized that though my great grandfather could point a plow for NW Arkansas USA soils and I couldn't---I can do pattern welding a whole lot better than he could! We had both specialized in what we thought was important for our craft in our own situations. (And I sure know a heck of a lot more about metallurgy than he did---or any smith before 1800 and most smiths before 1900!)

I've made my own iron/steel from ore; but don't consider that as part of the craft of smithing---even in the early iron age iron was traded from makers to users---look up "currency bars"; so commonly found in the archeological digs that there is even a term for them!

If you can only call yourself a title if you are a master at the thing in question; then there is very few of *anything* out there.

As for self taught: who is the real smith---someone who is self taught and is *GREAT*; or someone who has spent years with a large number of instructors and is *TERRIBLE*.

Here in America we have very open sharing of information between smiths too.

[Mick C]

I love to fire up my forge.
I love to pound on hot metal.
I love learning from my mistakes.
I love the pieces that come out well.
I love the pleasure I see in someones eyes when I present them with my efforts.
I love the look in my son and daughters eye as the metal comes out of the forge and the sparks fly when I strike on the anvil.
I love my hobby.

I would love to have more time to do my hobby, am I a Blacksmith?

Mick

[pete46]

I have 4 IFI t-shirts.
When I blow my nose the results are often black from coal smoke.
I have shut down many conversations by talking about blacksmith'n (they get this blank look and just wander off)
I have a forge & anvil (I use them often}
I am the best blacksmith in my community; as far as I know?
I make my living as a soldier ,but I AM A BLACKSMITH!
:D

[ciladog]

I have 4 IFI t-shirts.
When I blow my nose the results are often black from coal smoke.
I have shut down many conversations by talking about blacksmith'n (they get this blank look and just wander off)
I have a forge & anvil (I use them often}
I am the best blacksmith in my community; as far as I know?
I make my living as a soldier ,but I AM A BLACKSMITH!

I don’t mean to single you out but……..

Some of you guys need a reality check. I’m not out to burst anyone’s bubble but lets get real. I took my old AR15 out and marched the perimeter of my property looking for insurgents. Does that make me a soldier? I don’t think so.

You have a hobby and it called blacksmithing; it’s not your vocation. You may be very good at your hobby but you haven’t stood over a forge for 8 hours a day making 50 pair of strap hinges that have to ship in 3 days or get those railing panels done because the owner’s are closing on the house next week, have you? You don’t make your living pounding iron. To be a blacksmith is a vocation and to dabble in blacksmithing is a hobby. Sorry to tell you but you are, by your own admission, a soldier with a hobby, you’re not a blacksmith.

On the other hand, you could bend over at the waist and we could fill the room with smoke. Then you could be a blacksmith. Don't take it personally, I'm trying to make a point.

I’m not out to offend anyone but it cheapens the reverence I have for hard working blacksmiths that everyone that hits a piece of iron with a hammer to call themselves a blacksmith.

Enough said I’m sure.

[pete46]

OH! WHY YA WANNA HURT ME????
p.s. good point.

[ciladog]

OH! WHY YA WANNA HURT ME????
p.s. good point.

You are a great man. Thanks for understanding and thank you for surving our great country.

[pete46]

U R welcome !
BUT I'm gonna dress up like a b-smith 4 halloween.
so there! :D

[ciladog]

U R welcome !
BUT I'm gonna dress up like a b-smith 4 halloween.
so there!

Well please do post a picture. I'm not sure what a b-smith looks like. Is it something like a hobo?

[pete46]

That's it a hobo with a hammer !
YOU must play dress up too! :rolleyes:

[ciladog]

No I don’t play dress-up but my significant other always tells me I look like a bum when I come out of the forge before I clean up. I know some smiths that look as clean when they finish a day’s work as when they started the day. I just don’t know how they do it. My face is always smudge with coal soot.

[lordcaradoc]

OK, my turn to weigh in. I make my living in an office. I have also worked as a handyman to put bread on the table and will do so again, because I can do it in addition to my day job.

I have many hobbies. I participate in medieval reenactment, I do Woodworking, Blacksmithing and Leatherworking as an outgrowth of that hobby. Well, woodworking has been a passion for quite a bit longer. I'm also a history buff and an avid reader, among many other things I like to do with my scant free time.

I think a distinction could be applied here for those of us who can't make a living with Blacksmithing. ABANA stands for Artist Blacksmithing Association of North America. I may not be in a position right now to make a living at the forge, but I am still an artist for wanting to take the images in my head and shape the hot iron to conform to it. I am an Artist Woodworker because I conceive of a thing and make it into reality as well. I don't make my living doing that either. I love learning new skills for both and in other areas.

@Ciladog: Not to offend, but we can't all make our living doing this, or nobody would. Does the fact that I am currently not able to make a living doing these things I love, diminish my reverence for their history or for the skill of real masters? No. So I'll take the title Artist Blacksmith and hold my head high.

Best regards,
Tim

Edit: Oh, and if all I ever do achieve at the forge is to pay for the hobby, then that's OK too. :D

[ciladog]

@Ciladog: Not to offend, but we can't all make our living doing this, or nobody would. Does the fact that I am currently not able to make a living doing these things I love, diminish my reverence for their history or for the skill of real masters? No. So I'll take the title Artist Blacksmith and hold my head high.

Best regards,
Tim

Edit: Oh, and if all I ever do achieve at the forge is to pay for the hobby, then that's OK too.

I’m certainly not offended. xxxx, I don’t think I can be offended at this stage of my life.

I don’t mean to imply that an individual should not think themselves a blacksmith but it is what they present to the public. What matters is are you a craftsman? Do you know in your heart that your work is good? Is it the best you can do or do you need to improve? Did it come out the way you wanted or could it have been better? You should be your own worst critic.

So today I think I will be a nuclear physicist.

[monstermetal]

Um. Good luck with that

[lordcaradoc]

I’m certainly not offended. xxxx, I don’t think I can be offended at this stage of my life.

I don’t mean to imply that an individual should not think themselves a blacksmith but it is what they present to the public. What matters is are you a craftsman? Do you know in your heart that your work is good? Is it the best you can do or do you need to improve? Did it come out the way you wanted or could it have been better? You should be your own worst critic.

So today I think I will be a nuclear physicist.

Well, when was the last time Artists were universally liked, respected or revered? I take Artist to mean that I do the best I can and people are able to hold their own opinions as I do for much of the "art" out there.

Regards,
Tim

P.S. Thank you tlreif (Todd) for starting this thread, discussion is always good and I have seen only people sharing opinions here, no flames. :D

[Mainely,Bob]

Tomorrow it`s supposed to rain and I had planned on working outside but if it does rain and I end up indoors then I plan to be either a rocket surgeon or a brain scientist.
I`ll let you know how it turns out.Hopefully it`ll be sunny. ;)

[tlreif]

Well, when was the last time Artists were universally liked, respected or revered? I take Artist to mean that I do the best I can and people are able to hold their own opinions as I do for much of the "art" out there.

Regards,
Tim

P.S. Thank you tlreif (Todd) for starting this thread, discussion is always good and I have seen only people sharing opinions here, no flames.

You are welcome! I do what I can. LOL! I have enjoyed the opinions of each and every one that has responded. It just seemed like a relevant question for our time.

I have done some demonstrating at a museum here in town and they put up my name on the door of the shop and gave me the title of blacksmith. That is what got me to thinking about this subject.

[maddog]

Working at a craft or any other skill, professionaly forces a level of discipline and competence that is hard to match otherwise. You must perform all day everday whether you feel like it or not. You must complete projects on time even if you lose interest or run into technical difficulties or get sick. You can't have serious gaps in your skills. Don't like fitting collars? Too bad, there's 150 of them on this project and you have no choice but to do them and do them well. Dont like math? You had better learn whats needed for your work. You will have to take on work that you don't enjoy and will learn a great deal from it. You will get to do maintenance or repair on other peoples work. You may hate what they did or admire it. In either case you will learn a lot. You will work on large projects and sometimes collaborate with other craftsmen. You cannot bask in the kind compliments of friends and family. Your work is out in the cold wind of the competitive market and will take harsh criticism. If your work doesn't perform as expected it may affect your livelihood or worse expose you to legal liability.

I do as I please in my shop. Sometimes its obsessive and I put in longer days and more effort than a professional. But only because I feel like it. I can stop smithing for months at a time and my shop will still be there when I return. If I dont like a technique, I avoid it. As I see it,to call myself a blacksmith would be to ignore the fact that I am in a completely different class from the people who do it for a living.