Hi from Southern Oregon

[poleframer]

Hi all, I've been doing pole framed buildings for a while now, have been doing the front and back porches on a log house, hence the nym poleframer. Since poles are round (obviously) ya cant plate the joints on the outside, I make "T"s and multi-splined brackets out of 3/8" x 8" plate steel, the plates are set in cut out pockets usually 18" deep, then bolted through with 5/8" bolts, and bridge washers. So I guess in that aspect I've been becoming more and more of a steelworker. It's a side to the 20 some years I've spent doing contract work for the Forest Service, BLM, and a couple private companies.
I moved to this ridge property 10 miles out of town in 92, started the shop in 98 (took a while to become the owner), stood the posts in 01 (was standing one when the planes hit) it measures 38 deep by 42 wide, 10' to the cross beams.
The shop power is a story in itself, as I'm off the grid, and have a small hydro (alternator on a pelton wheel) couple solar panels. Then there's the 89 Miller Legend AEAD on the service truck I park inside, and a Kubota ZB600 2cyl diesel with a 220 amp alternator, and a hydraulic pump in a box mounted on the side of the shop.
The hydraulic system came to be when I ended up with an old conehead sebastian lathe I got from a friend.
Getting a little long winded here, I tend to do that...
OK so, my inverter is good to about a 3/4 hp elec motor, but what I have happening is a hydraulic system plumbed in the shop, with hydraulic motors powered by a 14hp diesel. Instead of VFD, I use flow control valves on the motors and get very nice control, and get good power at any speed for my 15x60 lathe, a pieced together milling machine, and my 30" parks band saw.
I've thought of setting up a forge in there for some time, and did so this winter (I take winters off, and isolate myself in the shop). I'm just a little further along in machinist work (a babe in the woods) than blacksmithing, but have a few ideas brewing you all might get a chuckle out of.
Guess I'll figure out the pic posting thing,put up a couple, and head for the forums.
Russell

[ironwolfforgeca]

poleframer where in southern Or are you ?
theres more than likely a blacksmith near you :<)
were called the Jefferson Smiths of northern Ca & southern Or
we get together every so often I am in Crescent City Ca
if you're interested in more info send me an EM to
ironwolfforge13@yahoo.com there are 2 big meeting coming up soon

[poleframer]

Hi IronWolf, email sent

[chyancarrek]

Welcome PF!

Man, did you come to the right place - Sounds like you got the perfect frame o' mind to fit right in here.
There's excellent information here (the site just went thru a major upgrade and some features are still being worked on) and a great bunch of folk.

So, what's that little crawler rig that's in the pics? It looks like a Dingo (or some such) that's had a small backhoe grafted on to it.

Check out the NWBA as well - There's a conference coming up in April and we're scattered all over the PacNW.

Enjoy!
Neil

[poleframer]

Haha, that's a Yanmar C10R I took the dump bed off of, replaced the underpowered engine with a Kubota 2banger, and the boom sortof developed over time, it spins on a turntable, pivots, and the tube the buckets on slides in and out. It ain't no big piece of equipment, but it picked the engine and clutch out an old skidder a neighbor was working on.

[poleframer]

Dont really know where to start, I have a couple of projects going in the shop that got me to sign up here.
It was the hydraulic power off the yanmar that got me thinking about using a hydraulic motor for the lathe. The place I got the tractor from also has sold me a good number of pieces, and the 3 kubota engines I have.
The engine in the shop and the tractor are the same, I can power anything in the shop off the tractor.
I should start a thread in the hammer section, but my ideas are changing pretty fast looking in there. Of course I'd like to make do with the piles of junk around my place, I try and be polite when my eyes drift to the nice pieces in my friends inventory.
The main spool for the shop hydraulics is next to the press, on that post. It's a 3 spool, the middle is spring center, I use it for up and down. the right one is detent, I use down to power the line to the lathe and mill, and up for the line to my band saw.
I'd use one to power a motor for a power hammer. I'm debating if I need to use a variable flow control like I do with the other motors, if I use the slipped belt method of driving it.
Or heck, maybe a different critter all together. This forge scene is encroaching fast on my slab, I try to keep room for working on a truck in there.
I usually run the shop diesel at an idle, and have enough power, the motor I have for this project spins at 900 rpm,open circuit I think it's a 5/8" 11 spline like the rest, east to make pulleys around.
Where to start?
here's a pic of the shop engine, and some recent work

[Dragons lair]

Hey pole, Ya wanna adopt a OLD smith/ fabrictor/welder/ diesel freq. I have 2 trackhoes 1 skid steer and a shop full of tools.
Ken

[jimmy seale]

howdy pole framer from west texas, welcome to IFI,jimmy

[Fe-Wood]

Welcome poleframer

Ha Ha Ha, Dragon, I was going to say that!

Seriously- nice set up! At one point I was looking into hydraulics to run my shop machines but got scared of the leak factor. I run on a 15KW 21HP Lister Gen set. It runs at around 1800 RPM... I set it by Volts, not speed. oh ya, I'm off grid too. I'm looking for a good way to quet it down for ther summer when I have the main doors open all day. Its air cooled so I'm not real exited about building a house around it. Have any Ideas worth shairing?

[poleframer]

Hi Fe-Wood, it'd be interesting to discuss power systems. This happened along with some other power upgrades, should be 24v by now, but so it goes.
I' been working with hydraulics for a few years, on my tractor, and being around logging equipment. If you think about how a typical shovel operator uses that machine, it's amazing that a high pressure system holds together as well as they do. I figured if I use the same type steel lines, and fittings, should be pretty safe in a static enviroment, and except for day one, the only fluid on the floor has been changing fittings.
Day one, however, got a bit exciting when I fired it up, I'd plumbed backwards, and got a startle when the filter blew off the reservoir, spraying the wall with oil.
Got that straightened out, but even then I keep the pressure down around 1500. I did all the return lines in 3/4" black iron pipe.
I love the flow control valves, I can turn the lathe at about 2 rpm, with enough torque to really break things. I'm thinking with the back gear enguaged, I could do some interesting twisting, with the 8' bed available.
I'm on a slow going learning curve with the lathe, other than turning parts, I've only set up to cut threads for some backing plates, and havnt gotten into power feed on it at all. If ya want a pic of anything there, just point.
Over at the press is a good place for the "master" valve bank, where I also located the 12v switch that activates the 12v clutch on the hyd. pump, start and stop hyd. pressure right there. I probably run the kubota around 1800-2000, things get moving fast enough for me at that, and to be honest, I havn't been gutsy enough to get anything moving that fast in the lathe.
I noticed some folks in the press section have electric driven pumps going on, know of anyone else doing something on a small scale like this?
Even tho I started long ago (to me anyway) this is really just my 3d winter in the shop, with amenities like walls, and doors.

[poleframer]

And howdy Jimmy, and Ken. Ya can call me pole, PF, or Russell, just not...nevermind. Ken, I drove a 59 Ford F100 (first year of stock 4x ford) to Sussex area of New Jersey from here in the winter to do construction, and a couple other runs out that way, DONT TEMPT ME :P

[jimmy seale]

hey back at ya pf, trying it aka stan here dose hydrolics at present he is working on a bank of 6 presses(i think) but any way he is probobly one of our better in house enganeers/hydro specialists. he has a rather impressive back ground. he can be found in the chat and talked to directly,so join us there to cuss and discuss,jimmy

[Fe-Wood]

Hi Fe-Wood, it'd be interesting to discuss power systems.
Over at the press is a good place for the "master" valve bank, where I also located the 12v switch that activates the 12v clutch on the hyd. pump, start and stop hyd. pressure right there. I probably run the kubota around 1800-2000, things get moving fast enough for me at that, and to be honest, I havn't been gutsy enough to get anything moving that fast in the lathe.
I noticed some folks in the press section have electric driven pumps going on, know of anyone else doing something on a small scale like this?
Even tho I started long ago (to me anyway) this is really just my 3d winter in the shop, with amenities like walls, and doors.

Hey PF-
You got me with the 12v switch!!!! I've been thinking about doing that for a compressor but hadn't considered it for hydraulics I have the room on the generator shaft too. No reason to convert energy to one form and then another... I included a picture of the generator. Its loud but it runs like a well oiled sowing machine.

You might consider coming down to the Ca. Blacksmith Assoc. hammer-in in Weaverville next month. I'm hoping to be there and I would enjoy talking power ideas over a beer or 3. I think there are a few guys coming from Southern Or. too.

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Russell, glad to have ya.

I agree, you've come to the right place, you're going to fit in here better than you'd believe.

Frosty the Lucky

[chyancarrek]

Hey PF

Fun retrofit on the Yanmar!
I've got an old Bolens riding mower that I'm currently working on converting to a mobile wheellbarrow - it'll be a nice alternative for when the full size tractor is too much gun for the job.

I'm enjoying the exchange between yourself and Fe-wood. Hydraulics are like mystical magic for me, I just can't get my head around it. So when two guys who know what they're talking about start chatting, I'm all ears.

[poleframer]

Thanks for the welcome, Frosty! Hey, chyanca.. how bout chy, my memory dosent even streach that far these days, haha. You might check out machinebuilders.net, it's the place for projects like your bolens, they're updating their site software now,so give it a while to join, thing the signup is disabled for a bit, but I think you'd find some ideas there.
I hear ya on the hydraulics, I couldnt even say what GPM I'm running at, just pressure, think I need to increase lines to the bandsaw, bit of friction loss going on, it goes a lot faster plugged into my tractor.
Here's some more shots of the shop, for yer amusement. Got some more brackets to fab up, not much of a professional shop, but when I put some money in my wallet, just makes my grin a little wider. Eh, if I can make enough to spend a few months a year holed up in there, works for me.

[Mainely,Bob]

Welcome to IFI.Nice shop!
You are in good company with the hydraulic powered shop.That`s how most of the Amish folks out in PA used to get around the no electricity thing.They`d set up an engine outside the shop building and then run plumbing to the shop instead of wiring.
I talked to a couple of the woodworking shops and they said the power(especially at low speed) and variable speed were a real plus compared to their neighbors who ran electric motors.
The machine shops love hydraulics too.
Are you running a hydraulic chainsaw off that tractor by any chance?Seems like it would be just the ticket for the type of jobs you do.

I have a friend who lives completely off the grid too.He has a propane powered `fridge and gas powered lites.The only thing electric is his well pump and he fires up a gen set once a week to fill his holding tank so the fuel bill is small.Heats the house with wood,just like we do.Pretty common thing up here where you never know when the power`s gonna go out.

[chyancarrek]

Hey PF,

Yeah, my handle here is a little long-winded . . . it's pronounced "shun carruk" it means "home by the stone". It's the name of my shop because I live on top of a rock ridge near Mt St Helens. My given name is Neil. Thanks for the tip on the website - I'll check them out.

I've got a 1962 Hyster forklift that has a 1980 Cascade mast on it thats plumbed for a side shift and I thought it'd be nice to make up a few hydraulic goodies but I just don't know enough about it to get started. One o' these days in my mythical spare time I'll get going on it.

Looking at your shop, I'd say it's about as nice a place to spend the Winter months as anybody would want!

[poleframer]

Heya Bob, I never thought of a hyd chainsaw, my stable of saws is pretty healthy, on up to the 090 , I have a woodsplitter, just a ram on an I-Beam I run off the tractor, always wondered if some backwoods equipment work would have me plugging in my versamil, and machining on site, with a portable power supply like that, lots of possibilities exist. At 3' wide, I can get into some tight spots with it, I drive it into my shop, and between workbenches for my heavy lifting. I'm really liking the way hydraulic motors perform, and the little kubota runs on about half fuel that my welder runs on, about a quart an hour, as opposed to a half gallon.
Hey Neil, tapping into a system isn't hard, if you don't already have an aux. port probably wouldn't be hard to put one in, anyone who works on tractor hydraulics should be able to fix you up, or see if there's a way to add a valve to the bank you have now. My nephew is a design engineer at the Hyster R&D shop, across the river in Troutdale. He does the controls, and battery systems for their electric fork trucks. If ya take a couple pics of it, and how it's plumbed, I might have an idea or two. I've had good luck scrounging and buying used hydraulic parts, I've spent way more getting hoses made than any other component. I could see a hyd. hose end clamp for the press might be real handy.
Russell

[chyancarrek]

Hey Russell,

I'm liking that Yanmar more and more with every pic you send! Your use of sending it into the shop to do the heavy lifting is a real attractive one.
My shop is 30' x 48' but it's too populated to get my forklift in there to grab the big stuff when I need to.

I'm down at the GF's place in Tigard right now but when I get back tomorrow I'll shoot a couple pics of the plumbing arrangement on my forklift.
It has a separate valve and control arm for the side shift and what appears to be quick-connect hose ends, hard-fastened to the mast.
I was thinking that it would be nice to make a log splitter for it but I just have no idea if the capacities of the lift's system meet the need or how to go about rigging it up.

[mike-hr]

Howdy Poleframer, I spent an enjoyable summer in CJ in the mid 1980's as a cave guide in the big hole up the road..seemed appropriate, I was a geology major for a while. I like your set-up, I'm also on the verge of exploring what hydraulics can do. A couple years ago, I helped a contractor buddy develop a system that lifted a complete house 3 feet in the air, so he could pour a footing underneath. Six big rams that all ran off of his bobcat skidsteer hydraulics. I hadn't thought much about hydraulics till I bought my 1964 hyster 4000# lift truck. I'm just amazed how my back doesn't hurt anymore now that I can just pull a lever and pick stuff up.. Anyway, I'm over the Cascades in Klamath Falls, feel free to look me up if you get in the area. Looking forward to seeing more of your ingenuity on the forum.
Mike Hricziscse

[poleframer]

Hey Mike, good to hear from ya. Bet you know the guy that I met from when I rebuilt the hydraulic pump for the yanmar. Cant remember his name right off, but he's in that big rock house, his dad and grandpa were machinists. PTL rings a bell. Did one better than a repair for me, taught me how to do it. What a chimney! Quite the shop too.
In the 20 some years of woodswork, I've gotten to work a fair bit in all the forests in oregon, lots of stuff out in the winema, fremont, I liked working the malheur, and ochoco's too, out on the east side, where a guy can walk upright like a human being. Just dont get turned around in that doghair lodgepole :)