Minion Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 At the moment I have some kao wool sitting in my forge so I want to put a coating on it before the borax has a chance to damage it, so would this work. If not suggestions are welcome hopefully local pickup. Thanks in advance http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/3/HouseHome/1/HeatingAirConditioning/WoodPelletStoveAccessories/PRD~0642704P/Imperial%2BHi-Temp%2BStove%2B%2526%2BFurnace%2BCement%252C%2B710%2BmL.jsp *link should work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 i will tell ya i just rebuilt my forge and the flux eats the inside...i dont think anything will prevent it...the best is to use small amounts of borax and clean it after every welding session.... it ate thru a ceramic plate i had on te floor...there is that sts 100 (i think thats the number) that stiffens the kaowool and says it helps the reflection value and maintaines the heat better....I couldnt open your link....I go to chilli forge or larry zollar for that kind of info... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 can't open the link; however unless it says it's good against flux it probably isn't! Most refractories are not and you would need a good thick layer as cracking could eliminate the protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcornell Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 At the moment I have some kao wool sitting in my forge so I want to put a coating on it before the borax has a chance to damage it, so would this work. If not suggestions are welcome hopefully local pickup. It would certainly help, but no, ITC-100 is not a proper 100% defense against borax flux. If you search on the web, you'll find a page where one of our fellow iron-bangers made a crucible out of kaowool and then painted it with ITC-100. The ITC-100 held against the flux for a while, but eventually the flux prevailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minion Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 I fixed the link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I don't think any brushed-on coating over Koawool will protect it from flux. A refractory (manufactured by ANH) can be used to make a floor that is impervious to flux. The product is called Plastech 85P and can be ordered online. You can read about it at "http://www.refwest.com/browseproducts/PLASTECH-85P-55--(STD).HTML". You may also order it at that site, but it can be ordered directly from the manufacturer for less cost.Harbison-Walker Refractories Company Pittsburgh, PA: 412-375-6897 Mexico, MO: 573-582-1300 ext. 16 Houston, TX: 713-635-3200 Plastech 85P can only be ordered in 55-pound boxes. It is a rammable refractory that needs to be formed (and packed) to the size you need. I build a small wooden box without a top or bottom (the size I need for a forge floor), then put some of the refractory into it and "ram" it tight with light blows from a hammer. Then carefully lift the frame away from the refactory and put it in the forge. I usually build round forges, putting one inch of kaowool all around the inside, then set the floor on top of the koawool. I put a slight "dome" on the floor as I make it, then use that dome as the bottom of the floor in the forge (that way the floor is level in the forge). I then add a second inch of kaowool around the inside of the forge, from one side of the floor to the other (holding in place with high-temp wire if necessary). Coat the koawool for best results with ITC products or Plistics-900 from Larry Zoeller. Flux will not damage the floor, but you still need to keep it away from the forge walls. The instructions you get with the refractory tell you it needs to be "burned in" using a very strict method, but I just fire up the forge at low heat and run it for a while till the floor hardens. I have never had problems using this method. The refractory is pricey (close to $100 (including shipping) to get a 55# box shipped to me), but it will make many forge floors. If you only use one forge, you might find others in your blacksmith guild that have a need and would share the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefera4m Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Yes, it will definitely help! In spite of what you may have read here it will help protect the KOAWOOL. I used an almost identical product, Hercules Furnace Cement, and acheived very good results and at a VERY reasonable cost as well. I had to initally thin the cement with water to get it to spread on the KOAWOOL, not too thin, you don't want it to soak in. Dry slow with low heat, I use a heat gun on low. If it cracks don't worry, you'll need to apply several thin layers followed by several thicker layers (un-thinned). Dry each layer slow with low heat, filling in any cracks each time. eventually you get a pretty durable protective layer for the KOAWOOL. A container of that size should allow for periodic maintenance as well. I finished my with a couple of coats of Satanite both to reflect the heat back into the forge and to further protect the cement/ceramic wool. This has been the most cost effective method to line a propane forge I've found. As inexpensive as the furnace cement, it is well worth the effort! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minion Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 Thanks any tips on where to get Satanite or any other product i can get to reflect the heat better. Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 It's a good idea to coat your Kaowool with something wether you are using flux or not as when ceramic blankets get damaged microscopic fibers become airborne and can lodge in your lungs, leading to complications like Silicosis. I have a thin stainless steel tray that I slide into my gasser when using flux, it gets gooey and breaks down eventually but it's cheaper and easier to replace than refractory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Judson have you tried placing cheap clay based kitty litter in your tray? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefera4m Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 The easiest place to get Satanite, other than the internet, is your local pottery/ceramic supply store. You might try Alberta Ceramic Supplies, Edmonton or Ceramic Canada in Alberta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 Thomas- That's a good idea, but I'm a bit spoiled by a nice amount of stainless scrap so I've never bothered. I'd imagine the litter gives better thermal characteristics than just the tray thou... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinityblacksmithing Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 My gas forge has a fire brick in the bottom surrounded by kaowool with a refractory mortar coating. I am using a 1/4" thick sheet metal with slightly curved up edges, except the edge facing me which hangs out of the forge. That way the only side the flux can run off is outta the forge. Then just pull out when done with a pair of tongs. Needs to be replaced once in a while, but very cheap to replace. Saves the fire brick from being eaten away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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