Dean O Riordan Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Okay im working on a small knife.I have forge out the basic shape of the blade today and filed down the blade smooth. Now i am starting to think about the finish on the knife, and would like to have a hamon ( temper line ) on the blade. Now I know how it is don but what i would like to know could i use fire cement to put on the spine of the blade when Harding it. Here is a small picture of the knife. Any help would be of gait help to me. Thank's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 First: Is it made from an alloy that produces hamons? Most don't. Then: I know you can use furnace cement; I'm not sure what fire cement in Ireland translates to over here. Most likely yes if you can get it to stick to the blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mayo Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Okay im working on a small knife.I have forge out the basic shape of the blade today and filed down the blade smooth. Now i am starting to think about the finish on the knife, and would like to have a hamon ( temper line ) on the blade. Now I know how it is don but what i would like to know could i use fire cement to put on the spine of the blade when Harding it. Here is a small picture of the knife. Any help would be of gait help to me. Thank's. Like was said it needs to be a shallow hardening steel such as w1,w2 or 10xx. Yes i use normal furnace cement to coat my blades and it does what i want it to. Also it need to be a fast quenching oil or water if you choose water be prepared for some broken and cracked blades. Good luck Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean O Riordan Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 First: Is it made from an alloy that produces hamons? Most don't. Then: I know you can use furnace cement; I'm not sure what fire cement in Ireland translates to over here. Most likely yes if you can get it to stick to the blade. The steel is 5160 as far as i know it is an alloy steel ( I use the search bar to find out that answer ) It's cut from a leaf spring a very thick one 10mm thick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Waldon Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 That's not a small pic if you click on it. Anyway, lookin' good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean O Riordan Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 Like was said it needs to be a shallow hardening steel such as w1,w2 or 10xx. Yes i use normal furnace cement to coat my blades and it does what i want it to. Also it need to be a fast quenching oil or water if you choose water be prepared for some broken and cracked blades. Good luck Bob I have old engine oil, the steel is 5160. Thank's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Waldon Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 For the heat treats I've done, I use old frying oil. it seems to work ok, though it does leave some undesirable crud on the blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean O Riordan Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 Just found out that 5160 steel will not give me the temper line (hamon ) that i would like. so ill have to do with out Search bar help me out again with this answer Any way do i use oil for Harding ? Thanks for the help so far :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Waldon Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I've heard that using things other than oil can cause the blade to crack or even shatter when immersed. I'll wait for someone to back me up on that, but I'm pretty sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mayo Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Yes use oil canola oil will work heat the oil up first then quench your blade. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 If you don't know what to use; oil is a good first guess. If it's not hard enough (under any decarb layer), re-do it in brine. If it shattered in oil; well it was an air hardening alloy---not very common in the scrap stream though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Waldon Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 What exactly is the composition of brine? I know its salt and water, but what's the ratio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Traditionally you added salt to your water till it would float an egg. I assume this would be a *fresh* egg in those days and not a dried out in processing and storage egg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy seale Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 ok, well fresh water is 8.34 ppg, saturated brine is right at 14 ppg.sea water is 9.4 ppg on the avarage. but most brine quenches is in the 1:1 catagory...1 gal. water to 1 # salt.but i think anything between 9.5 to 10 ppg will work sufficently.hope this totaly confuses you, good luck, jimmy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean O Riordan Posted January 6, 2010 Author Share Posted January 6, 2010 Okay guy's iv just don the heat treat ( Hardening ) of my knife. I used old engine oil, and as far as i can see no sing of crack's the tang is soft but the blade is hard. Now Tempering of the blade, What's the easy-es way of doing it or the best way of doing it. lol i stink of burnt engine oil Here is a picture of the knife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Waldon Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Stick it in your oven for a few hours at at least 350 degrees Fahrenheit, or maybe 150 Celsius. You need to do it quickly after hardening, I've heard stories of blades randomly shattering from internal stress because the smith waited too long to temper them. Ask someone else for the exact temperatures though, I've only done this once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean O Riordan Posted January 6, 2010 Author Share Posted January 6, 2010 Stick it in your oven for a few hours at at least 350 degrees Fahrenheit, or maybe 150 Celsius. You need to do it quickly after hardening, I've heard stories of blades randomly shattering from internal stress because the smith waited too long to temper them. Ask someone else for the exact temperatures though, I've only done this once. Thank you for telling me that Iv put it in the oven to at 350d* F. Oh do i leave it to cool down in the oven after it's bin in for a few hours, when i tern the oven off ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mayo Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Dean I would temper at 400f for two hours should be around rc60 then let it cool in the oven to room temp. It never hurts to do it twice. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean O Riordan Posted January 6, 2010 Author Share Posted January 6, 2010 Dean I would temper at 400f for two hours should be around rc60 then let it cool in the oven to room temp. It never hurts to do it twice. Bob Cool thanks for the info Sorry but what dose rc60 mean i tried the search bar but could not fined an answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mayo Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Rc is rockwell hardness is a scale to measure the hardness of your blade. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Waldon Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 How do you test Rc? I've never heard of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamj Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 rockwell hardness is tested by a machine that pretty much hits the metal mith a small center punch and measures the hardness of the metal from what i have heard. correct me if im wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mayo Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 rockwell hardness is tested by a machine that pretty much hits the metal mith a small center punch and measures the hardness of the metal from what i have heard. correct me if im wrong You are right on Adam. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamj Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 the reason i know about one my uncle brought up the fact wondering just how hard one of my knives was and he told me they had a rc tester at the plant he works at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean O Riordan Posted February 8, 2010 Author Share Posted February 8, 2010 Hi all i finished that knife i was making so here are some pic's for you. and here is a link to a video iv got on youtube.My video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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