monstermetal Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I have a conundrum that I am hoping you all can help me with. I have a pair of cast iron T slot tables that came from a big planer They are 3' X 12' and one has 1 1/4 locating pin holes, the other these cool slots you poke a 1" sq nut (i think its 1 5/8 edge to edge) through then pull to the side and it locks in a box so you can tighten from the top with no wrench on the bottom.. I plan is to put them next to each other with a 2 foot gap.. so I would have a 8' X 12' work area with a walk way down the center..... These would set next to my 6' X 12' X 2" thick fab table with 2 foot between them.. so I could basicly have a single flat plane that was 16' X 12' and be able to get out to the middle... Anyway in order to do this I will have to get rid of my 8' X 8' platen (acorn style) table... I currently do quite a bit of bending on the platen table but it makes a poor general work surface because its full of holes... I think I could build bending fixtures that would bolt in the T slot table and do much the same work on there.... I really am excited about the possiblilitys of the T slot table, Im just not sure I can give up my Platen table.... I dont have to sell the platen, but it would have to go out side If I kept it.... Anyone have any insite into why either option might be better than the other? Anyone use a big T slot table? Do you like/dislike it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I'd keep the acorn and put it outside. The T-slot will not be quite as versatile for bending because of the distance between slots but as you said, having a flat surface that long will be handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 Im thinking that for bending it might actually be better than the acorn table. On the platen table its always a struggle to get the spacing right, and the "peg's" seem to cant in the square hole so the sides of the pegs are not parallel... What I was thinking on the T slot table is use one of those 1 1/4 pin locations as the "dog" pin and then have a plate that bolts across two T slots with the bend pin in it... so by sliding the plate long ways on the table you could make the hole from 2" to 2' wide quickly... Now to do multiple bend pegs would get a bit tricky.. but same deal.. you could use two long round sleeves over bolts in the same T slot and get them as close or as far apart as you wanted... The T slots are for like 7/8 bolts so a 5" high post should still be pretty rigid... One of the things I really want to try is make a hydraulic bending table using fixtures on the T slots... I have dozens of 10,000 PSI cylinders ranging from 5 to 50 ton and 7 diffrent pumps.. Three electric, one air and two hand operated..... For doing big iron It would be really great to be able to push in one section, leave it pinched and move to another spot and push... My fear there is breaking the cast iron... the two tops together weigh about 8,000 lbs... but the cross section at the bottom of the T slot grove on the top table is only about a 1 1/4 thick... you get a couple of 30 ton cylinders trying to push the table in half it might just go "pop" It should take a lot of load long ways... just not across the short side.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 The T-slot cross section is designed to hold things in place to the table. If you use it for bending I would be afraid of breaking the cast iron. The acorn is designed for bending and the cross section is much stronger. You have both so choose the best tool for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 Breaking the T slot table is my biggest fear. Prior to coming into it I had planed on using the platen table for my hydraulic bending. The one thing I really dislike about the platen is its 8' X 8'.... the center of the table is pretty much worthless. If I owned my own shop I would cut a hole in the floor and pour a little pit for it so it was flush... Then maybe you could really do something on it... I think the T slot tables sound really neat but they might not be as versatile as I think.. What I really need is a bigger shop... so I could leave all of the tables where I can get to them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 What I really need is a bigger shop... Now where have I heard that before? (grin). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Drop the platen into the floor. A machinery dealer I know in CA pulled 60 platens out of a steel plant. They had them set into the floor making one large fixture area. The platens were keyed together, and set into packed sand. You could even just set it down onto the floor for now. The planer tables are pretty strong, and if you brace against multiple slots you should be OK. My Dad ran the big Gray planer at Mare Island Naval Shipyard when he started there. His first job was planing two steel plates that weighed 12 tons. The only other planer that size was back East. It ended up being sold to a scrap dealer who broke it up , and hauled it out. If I remember right the table was 36 -40 feet long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 Wow... that is a big planer... There was a planer table on a auction here a month or so ago... not the whole machine, just the table.. It was 25' long and 5 feet wide and a foot thick. It would have been a really sweet table but I dont think the floor in my shop would support it... must weigh 50,000lbs? 40,000 at least I cant figure out why this table has two tops.... the "under" top is the one with the bolt grab pockets and the upper table has the pin holes... both have T slots.... At first I thought they must have damaged the lower table and so had a new table cast and bolted it to the top.. But it seems like the bottom table is in good shape, best I can tell from reaching around in the pockets and feeling for spawl.. The blanchard ground the top table with the bolt heads sticking out.. so I am going to have to get creative to remove the bolts holding them together... what I think I am going to try is drilling and taping a left hand thread 1/2" into the top of the bolt and then using it to try and turn them out... Anyway if I can get them apart I will have two 3' X 12' tables rather than one so I think it is worth the effort.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Hmmm, having a hard time with the description of the stacked tops, can you take a close picture? Do the bolts come in from the bottom? I would look at welding a large nut onto the bolt for removing. Say it is a 1/2 in bolt, lay a 3/4 in nut on top, and stick weld through the center. The heat will also help to loosen the bolt up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 the bolts go down through the top.... the pic where it looks like nothing is there but a faint chalk circle... thats a bolt location this end shot is to dark to really show the two layers well... the bottom table has the ways and the spot where the rack would have gone... the top table looks similar to a cast iron inspection table from the bottom.. it has support ridges cast into it and is reinforced at the T slots and pin locations.... I had thought about welding a nut on there as well... my fear is spawling the cast iron around the bolt hole or maybe getting a little off and pulling a chunk of cast out.... the bolt heads are pretty hard to make out... I have the table upside down down and let some penetrating oil soak in from the bottom.... those little rings on the top are dams i put on there to hold some oil and try and soak from the top... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_edge2 Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 probly best you not suffer any stress, and send them to me:o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesteryearforge Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I have one that is 4 feet wide X 20 feet long and 1 foot thick. Removed it from a large G&L cnc mill when i scrapped it. So far it has only been used for the iron in the hat table Mike Tanner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Ok... it was a bugger... all I got done today. But I got the tops apart.... Here are some pics of using a hollow cylinder to pull drilled and taped pins, rolling the table (which was a bit sketchy to do by myself) and the bolts with the nuts welded on.... And finally both tops... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 So, how the heck did they tighten them suckers IN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 my guess is they had a socket or hex head that stuck well proud of the table top, after they got them tight they cut them off close before surfacing the top, I would assume on a planer... but maybe blanchard ground? I think the second top was put on by the manufacture... the bottom table looks like it has never been used, however its got a crack that runs between the two outside T slots... On the underside of the bottom table at that location some extra mass and a couple of 30" long threaded rods holding it together.... my guess is that during finishing the crack appeared and it was easier to cast and bolt down a "flat" table rather than start all over... But who knows... I would think for a fab table as long as its on a solid base you would never have to worry about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Platen tables can break with heavy bending as well. My platen table is solid 6" thick not hollow underneath and came from a steel mill blacksmith shop. They used to use a long bending tool (called a wheese(sounds like cheese)) similar to a fork and had another arm fastened to the table, they then used a come along between the wheese and the arm. Later on they used hydraulics as well. My table has a piece of 1"x5" flatbar wrapped around it welded at the end and bolted to the sides of the table. Without this flatbar my table would be in several pieces, with it, it is solid and quite flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Platen tables can break with heavy bending as well. My platen table is solid 6" thick not hollow underneath and came from a steel mill blacksmith shop. They used to use a long bending tool (called a wheese(sounds like cheese)) similar to a fork and had another arm fastened to the table, they then used a come along between the wheese and the arm. Later on they used hydraulics as well. My table has a piece of 1"x5" flatbar wrapped around it welded at the end and bolted to the sides of the table. Without this flatbar my table would be in several pieces, with it, it is solid and quite flat. Do you still have all the bending garb? Id like to see a photo... I have seen several "big" bending rigs... always interesting stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I had a platen like that. When I bought it I turned it over, it was pristine on the other side. Most weigh around 2,800lbs, this one weighed 4,800! Had a strip down the middle maybe 18-24 inches wide with no holes. They don't seem to hold dogs as well though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I don't have the bending stuff but I will sketch it up tonight as it has been described to me. The wheese is really simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Thats ok John.... I have seen several and they varied a bit in construction.. I have never seen one small enough to work on a 5 x 5 platen though and was wondering about material and construction.. The only one I ever saw in operation they where bending 2 1/4" 4140 sq bar in a long curve for some farm implement... They had steel piers bolted to the floor for the pivot and reaction points.. the arm was about 15' long and had a chunk of about 20" pipe welded to it vertical on the end and they pushed the arm around with a forklift... the pipe gave it a radius so the forklift could be a bit off and it would still push around... It looked effortless... like you could walk over and push it around... and they where doing it cold... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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