YISS Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Im a newb to forge work and have been using charcoal in a home made forge, running well enough for my present needs. I went to the local coal yard and the chap their sold me some breeze. I got it home and after many atempts at getting the coke to light I have had to give up. I basically used firelighters, loads of them under a stack of coke, whilst some of the coke went a little grey, it didnt even seem to glow. Any suggestions, does this coke even burn or is it used to just hold heat? Any help appreciated! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Welcome to the forum YISS. It'd probably be wort your while adding your location to your profile, you never know when theree is a smith just round the corner able to help! The smithing coke we get in the UK is known as breeze and yes it does take a fair amount of heat to get going. Firelighters do not, in my experience, get hot enough on their own, though they work fine for lighting the next stage of the fire ready: a good wood or charcoal fire. Once there's a good solid fire going I then work the coke in from the edges of the fire, being very careful not to choke it. Takes a few minutes from striking the match to putting steel in the fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Build your charcoal fire as usual and start adding the coke to it after it gets going good. Remember that coke needs a constant air flow or it will go out on it's own----even during a short work period at the anvil in some cases! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YISS Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Build your charcoal fire as usual and start adding the coke to it after it gets going good. Remember that coke needs a constant air flow or it will go out on it's own----even during a short work period at the anvil in some cases! Hey thanks that really helps, as does adding my location. I guessed I wasnt getting the heat but was also wondering if id just bought a bag of useless spent crud! Right charcoal first it shall be. Again many thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YISS Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Build your charcoal fire as usual and start adding the coke to it after it gets going good. Remember that coke needs a constant air flow or it will go out on it's own----even during a short work period at the anvil in some cases! Thanks, it makes sense that the coke will go out quickly as it is very low in actual volatile components, I'm suprised it burns at all, will the coke need topping up with charcoal every now and then or will it keep burning so long as it has air flow? It will be nice to get a little more heat, especially if it is more consistent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YISS Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 After doing more reading it appears that the coke I bought is of the Metallurgical variety, harder? Will I still be able to fire this up or does it require ridiculous temperatures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Coke is an odd fuel; it seems reluctant to burn and indeed makes for a fairly good insulator but when it does it is very good. It doesn't need 'topping up' with charcoal so long as you don't let it go out. Where did you buy the coke from YISS? Was it in bags? There's only a few 'brands' available in the UK so I'm sure someone on here has some experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YISS Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Thanks I got it from R.J fuels in Gloucester. He weighed it out and begged it I got 10 kilos. It pretty hard stuff and seems to have an almost silver texture in places, visibly porous rather like pumice but darker well mostly black! I will have another crack at it tommorrow after getting some charcoal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Sounds like you are using coked anthracite. You might like to take a look at these discussions: http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f11/anthricyte-vs-bituminous-coal-5443/http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f85/anthracite-coal-14857/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YISS Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Sounds like you are using coked anthracite. You might like to take a look at these discussions: http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f11/anthricyte-vs-bituminous-coal-5443/http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f85/anthracite-coal-14857/ Thanks an interesting read I guess the anthracite would explain the metalic looking aspect to the coke? If I had a camera I would put up a photo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Hi Yiss, welcome to the site, Beth is near to you and may be able to help, What you have should work fine, What is normally used is the Monkton or Sunbrite forging Coke Its the same stuff, just a different name Paper, loads of sticks, and a gentle airblast increasing as coke catches should work ok to start up. It may also help if you mix some charcoal fines in with the coke, but it will still go out quickly if you shut the airflow off. Have a look at our website and pop down to Westpoint if you want to discuss anything or see what we use. Blacksmiths Guild Home Good luck with it all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YISS Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Thanks. Just looking at the web site! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Hello, I had problems getting coke to burn when I started out. I'm in Hertfordshire and use the locally available K. G. Smith 'Forge Breeze'; no complaints with coke at all. But... the stuff I get comes in 20kg plastic sacks, very strong, but these keep the coke damp (which in my experience is invariably how it is packed). Having tried all sorts of ways to make starting my fire easier I now leave the coke out to dry in one of those wide-low flexible plastic buckets that you can buy in DIY shops. After a few days drying out it fires up pretty readily when placed on burning charcoal. So, 1) use dry coke & 2) put it on burning charcoal. Keep trying. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YISS Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Thats useful advice, sometimes I'm sure the belief it will work is a good portion of getting a job done. I have had welding temperatures (fleetingly) with charcoal so I guess its got to get that coke going, will have to get some more charcoal tommorrow. I have a feeling its going to be hot, heres hoping. Oh and again thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 That snap-cracle-pop you hear when you first start adding coke to a new fire is the water suspended in the coke turning to steam. Dry coke is a must! Another nice trick- When you will be doing something away from the forge for a few minutes, say maybe 5-10 min. or more, put a fist sized chuck of dry wood in the hot spot of the fire and cover with coke. If done right, the fire will not go out for quite a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yea3114u Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Does it look like this? Be sure you are breaking it up to a usable size, which can be a job in itself. The stuff I get come in fist sized chunks and is hard. I toss some in a metal box and use a digging bar to make quick work of it. Like others have said a good charcoal fire will get it going and take note of Ironwood's wood chunk tip to keep it going. Also as there is not nearly as much ash or clinker there is not much to insulate your fire pot, so if you are using a cast iron one it can burn it up over time depending on how much you forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TASMITH Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 If it is a true coke breeze that came from a coke making facility (Steel Mill etc) it is about 95% pure carbon. All the volatile gases, oils and tars have been removed from the original coal. What is left is carbon,small amounts of ash.sulphur and other very minor impurities. It takes a considerable amount of heat to light and a LOT of air to burn. It is however one of the premium fuels for forge welding as it produces vast amounts of carbon monoxide and almost no other undesirable products that can vastly affect welding. The large amount of Carbon Monoxide produced combines with available oxygen in the air blast and greatly reducing scale formation on your steel being heated to welding temp. Thomas is correct in saying that the coke will go out quickly if there is not a steady flow of air supplied. It is best used with an electric blower and controlled air blast by means of an air gate. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TASMITH Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 As a side note, if you go to the home page and check under the 'Articles' heading you will find an article that I have written on the coke making process as it is done at a primary steel making facility. The description of the process produces the type of Metalurgical coke that you are probably using. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YISS Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 Well I got some nice charcoal, used about four golf ball sized pieces, broke the coke into dice sized lumps and covered the small charcoal fire! And they glowed up a treat. A joy to work with, especially as up until now I have been using BBQ charcoal. Far less crap on my work piece and a way more even manageable heat plus hardly any clinky crud. And of course smaller grains of fuel that i can push my work into. JOY Thanks to you r advice todays few hours at the forge resulted in two nice stick tang knife blanks, ready for a polish grind heat treat etc. Just to add, I'm not used to such an intensity of heat, I left my first piece of steel in too long (bit of 4x4 suspension coil) and the ned melted away and it started to burn, sparkling. A good omen! Im now a fan of coke, thats for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 A note on burning your work- When you see the tell tale sparks in the fumes, wait to pull the piece completely out of the fire. Once the steel hits open air you oxidize faster. If allowed to cool for just a few seconds in the forge atmosphere, you will loose less material. Glad to hear you got it going:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 The forge coke we have commonly available in the UK is Monkton /Sunbrite. I understand that it is basically the same thing under a different name, it is manufactured at a single plant in the UK (currently owned by a French company) and is a by product of the chemical industry. Hopefully it will still be available for a long time to come as there was talk of the new owners shutting the plant in the UK down. If this happens I suppose we will be looking to Siberia for new reasonably priced coal supplies, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 What you need to do is get the Chinese to start bringing it in. Probably be 10% of what you're paying now. And hey, nobody will probably even check the lead content. They might even be able to make it from nuclear waste. Or maybe human waste even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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