Swage Blocks: Do you guys have them and if so do you use them much?

[wd&mlteach]

I am new to blacksmithing and I have been looking and learning a lot about the tools a techniques, the biggest thing I have learned lately is that I know less than I thought I did. Anyway, I have been looking at swage blocks and they seem pretty expensive. Yea, I know a giant piece of cast iron on a stand will last the rest of my lifetime and the next guys but, at first glance they seem pretty specific. What are they used for and what do you guys find them indispensable for?

[Quenchcrack]

They are used for shaping hot metal. There are rounds and squares on the edges to help form tenons or anything else you need a shape for. The faces often have depressions for spoons, bowls, ladles, etc. I have one from the Salt Fork Craftsmen in Oklahoma but I don't use it much. It depends on what you plan to make, though. I'd recommend you wait to buy one.

[matt87]

I've never used one but depending on the design I understand they are versatile tools. As well as swaging of course they can be used as a second pair of hands, e.g. to hold round stock without it rolling away, or square stock on edge. I imagine this would be useful when punching or chiseling. Some designs have through-holes in them and they can be used to help when upsetting, punching, drifting or when forming tenons. Some designs have depressions in them intended to help when forging concave objects such as spoons or shovels.

There has been at least one in-depth discussion on this topic, which I suspect is why there have been few responses to this thread.

[David Einhorn]

I use mine fairly frequently. A number of responses to this question may be found at:

http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f22/floor-mandrels-swage-blocks-833/

[wd&mlteach]

Thanks matt87, I am still new to forums and did not see the topic on the first search page so naively I thought the question might not have been asked. That post has all of the information I need on justification.

But let me tell you the real reason for asking. I know that I have a very slim chance at owning a real swage block, and I am always looking for a challenge. Could one of these be made from steel and not cast? The local scrap yard has a mountain of structural and plate steel. Most of the plate steel in the mountain is the leftovers from CNC plasma cutting in a variety of wonderful shapes. At the bottom of this mountain everyday, there are guys there cutting the plates with torches. The plates come in full size and their job is to cut them down into more manageable pieces, then use the magnet crane to top off the pile with the cuts. I asked the guys working and they are more than happy to cut me any piece that I want or get any tidbit off of the pile.

What I am asking is if it is worth it to get a bunch of different shapes and weld them together into a big piece forming a sort of swage block? All of the structural steel is $0.40 a pound and any thickness you could want.

[ptree]

Matt, I went for maybe 10 years without a swage block, then bought a small one from Honest Bob of Quad State fame. I have found many uses for it. I wish I had bought mine sooner. My little block is easy to move and I use the heck out of it.

[David Einhorn]

My advise is to consider making individual tools instead of trying to duplicate one big block, as that would likely be easier to make, use and you would be able to add forms as needed.

Start by accumulating a selection of different diameters of pipe about 2 or 3 inches long. My preference is to weld short length of angle iron to the bottom of the tools I make so that I can use the tooling in any vise, but some people prefer to weld stubs to the bottom so that they can use the tooling in their anvils. These lengths of pipe when mounted to your angle iron or stubs will allow you to sink metal into them for some of the operations where you would otherwise have used the swage block.

I also weld some studs vertically to sections of angle iron. When placed in the vise with the pipe sections that were previously welded to angle iron, you now also have a selection of bending jigs that are adjustable for different thicknesses of iron bars.

To simulate the V notches in a swage block, weld some short lengths of heavy angle iron vertically to your mounting method of choice (again I used angle iron).

Now get some short lengths of round rod, up to 2.5" or more in diameter. Weld these to stubs or angle iron. You now have bottom swages.

Now use those swages to form curved lengths of iron. Flip them over and weld to your stubs or angle iron. You now have the round forms found on the sides of swage blocks. You can add additional sizes as needed.

Now forge a horse shoe shape in some 5/8" or 3/4" round stock. Weld this to a flat plate and that plate to your stubs or angle iron. You now have a form for making fire shovels.

Swage blocks don't always have a notch or form that a smith needs, and swage blocks are not very portable for demonstrating. I make separate tooling mounted on short lengths of angle iron both for those forms not available in my blocks, and also so that I can use tooling when traveling to a demonstration. The tooling then can be used in whatever vise is available wherever I am demonstrating. My portable 100 pound anvil for demonstrating has a different size hardy hole than my over 350 pound shop anvil, so mounting the tooling on angle iron saves me from making more than one set of tooling.

I find my swage blocks and floor mandrels indispensable. However even having swage blocks I still find the need to make additional forms as a task requires, or to have some portable forms for demonstrating away from the shop to the public. I find the need for forms especially useful when making chisels, and other tools.

Give a man tools and he will smith for a couple of years until he reaches the limit of his abilities and quits; teach a man to make tools and he will smith for a lifetime.

But let me tell you the real reason for asking. I know that I have a very slim chance at owning a real swage block, and I am always looking for a challenge. Could one of these be made from steel and not cast? ........All of the structural steel is $0.40 a pound and any thickness you could want.

Edited July 12, 2009 by UnicornForge

[philip in china]

Yes and yes is the answer to your post. I have a 60 pound block from Ironworks supplies. In fact just before coming into the internet cafe I was mentally designing a stand for my block. I also want to make a similar anvil stand. My idea is so simple that there must be a flaw somewhere. Anyway that will do for a different thread

Yes it is possible to make a block by drilling steel. Why not? It is also possible to get a lot of shapes to use from such thigs as gear boxes and caterpillar tracks!

BTW have you looked at Swage Blocks ? I think that link is correct.

[Glenn]

There are several boxes of swages in the shop. They are positive and negative shapes. A positive shapes would be forming against the outside of a pipe, negative would be cutting the same pipe in half and using the inside of the pipe.

I have collected solid round bars, hydraulic cylinder, etc in any size I could find, and about 3-4 inches long. Most were welded to hardie posts and rested on the anvil face. Some shapes were duplicated and stand 3 inches or so above the anvil face for special projects. The most used sizes range from 1/2 inch to about 4 inches.

Next came the negative shapes in a variety of sizes. You can use the space between the teeth on large gears, pipe cut in half, etc.

By putting the negative shape on the anvil and using the positive shape as a top tool you can expand your tooling capability with no additional cost.

Swage blocks are great tools, but not owning one means you just need to be a little more creative.

[wd&mlteach]

Thanks folks for the responses. Philip that link was perfect. I am a visual learner and to me pictures really do it, thanks that site had plenty of illustrations depicting usage.

UnicornForge I will make a couple of those smaller assemblies this week, when I get them done I will post pictures. I understand the design and operation of a welded jig and have made bunches of them in the past.

Glenn I never thought about gears, way cool! The scrap yard has tons of them.

I still think I am going to try some of the CNC plasma shapes though they are just too neat to pass up on.

[divermike]

I think the important part is your education, I got one right away and did not use it for the first year and a half, and then, as my skills starting increasing, I used it more and more, now I can't imagine not having one, much less three!! When you have to do a specific thing, they are wonderfull to have around, during my class with Mark Aspery, he made a swage, on the swage block, and really impressed me!!

[Glenn]

BP0184 Look - See
I knew I remembered this topic before. (grin)

[wd&mlteach]

Thanks a lot Glenn that is perfect. The only problem is that I have to make a portable mount for my leg vise. I have been searching the forums a little better this time and I have found a few plans that I can make work to my style. Once that is done then I will post some of my "swage-ifications".

[Glenn]

Please explain "portable mount for my leg vise".

If that is portable mount that can be used for the vise to grab onto, I suggest angle iron welded to the tool. Large flat surface to attach to and a good vise width surface for the vise jaws to clamp to.

If that is a portable mount for the leg vise to attach to a table etc, may I suggest a truck receiver and a couple of carriage bolts to drop into holes to hold everything in place. Drill the bolt for a hair pin clip to keep it in place. For portable vise, there are other ways to make that idea work.

And I am sure both of the above suggestions are way off base when I hear your explanation (grin).

[wd&mlteach]

No you are right on track with the second solution. The Wife won't let me cut a hole in the roof of my shed so everything has to come out each time I forge, anvil, stand, forge, tooling, and the like. Here is a link to my first post showing my forgehttp://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f85/new-blacksmsithing-first-forge-13230/ It may actually be a good idea to work outside since I store the mowers, gasoline, paint, LP gas and everything else flammable in the shed and it might just be safer to do this stuff outside.

Right now my leg vise is lying on the floor in my shed and I have not used it yet. So in order to use it I need to build a mount that I can move out every time. I thought about mounting it to my forge but the height of the vise is around 40" and the forge is 34" so that might get in the way. I also thought about mounting it to my anvil stand. I got one of those NC anvils and the stand to hold it, I know it is not designed for blacksmithing but it was cheap.

Or I could just a build seperate stand. I saw the designs for the tripod stand but I know me and I would trip on that. I think the way to go for me is to build one out of plate steel with a vertical support. I have a ton of 1/4" structural C channel in 5-8' lengths that would work perfect, I just need to find a bottom plate.

[KYBOY]

I bought a Salt fork craftsman swage block and would be lost without it..We make a lot of spoons for folks and I weld all my cable damascus on my swage block..

[Glenn]

BP1009 Post Vise
Problem solved (grin)

[wd&mlteach]

Thanks Glenn, that is exactly what I need to make.