the archer Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I've had this knife for a while now. When i first got it, the knife was pretty sharp. I tried to maintain it but nothing could keep it sharp. Now it is dull. The steel is only 420 stainless yet everything from metal to ceramic to regular sharpening stones won't sharpen it. Any ideas on how to sharpen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 (edited) You need a knife with good blade steel, that has been properly heat treated. Almost anyone can put an edge on that knife that knows angles and how to get them. But that steel is lacking as far as I am concerned. When you said it is only 420 stainless I suspect you already know this. If this is a custom knife you paid a lot for send it back to them maker for thoughts. Edited July 6, 2009 by Rich Hale .................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I don't know what the problem is yet... can you not cut the steel with your stones? I'd seek experienced help with the sharpening before I'd send it back. If I could see it and talk to you I'd figure out the problem shortly. If the steel is too hard for your stones use diamonds. If the problem is one of technique then you need coaching. If the steel is too soft it needs re-heat-treating (this same solution works if the steel is TOO hard [brittle]). Knives too hard or too soft will not hold their edges... but you should still be able to sharpen them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the archer Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 I know how to sharpen the blade. I have other knives that i sharpen with the equipment that i have just fine. I have tried diamond sharpeners on this blade too. I have brought it in to be sharpened before but the people had the same problem as me. It just doesn't want to sharpen. It took so long for the edge to dull that the warranty is over on the knife, so i can't bring it back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckster2.0 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Well if you aren't afraid of price I found an interesting sharpening system called the tormek. Tool Sharpening it seems pretty cool and they have a variety of stones you can use. But it it costs over $600. But it looks like a good investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 it it costs over $600. But it looks like a good investment. Over $600 for limited use, IE one radius hollow grind only and limited supplier for their stones ---vs--- a belt grinder that can use any manufacturers belts, various diameter sheels, platten or slack belt use, with any grit... hmmm its all point of view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Back to the root of the question that I at first passed over..any knfe maker can put an edge on that steel. Any of the same folks can put an edge on mild steel that has not been hardened in any manner. It can also be sharpened with many methods. Stainless prefers diamond systems rather than more traditional stones. If you use stones or butcher steel to rgains an edge it may work for a while intil it changes the angles a lot and then you have to restore the angles. For this my choice is a belt grinder with several grits of belts. Even if it is out of warrenty the factories at times offer blade sharpening for a nominal fee plus shipping. I would not spend any more money on a knife with 420 steel. There are steels that I feel are better for use. However they cost alot more. Find a knife from a good custom maker or comercial that is stamped as 440C, ATS-34, 154CM or CPM 154 or D-2, if the heat treat is done right you will be amazed at the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the archer Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 I am going to be making my own knife. I have another thread asking for some help with a few problems I am having Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckster2.0 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Over $600 for limited use, IE one radius hollow grind only and limited supplier for their stones ---vs--- a belt grinder that can use any manufacturers belts, various diameter sheels, platten or slack belt use, with any grit... hmmm its all point of view Belt grinders are good but they generate a lot of heat which can ruin the temper. If you aren't good at controlling the edge you have to put more effort into building jigs. I'm not saying that people should use it to make a blade, but it would be a convenient way of putting the finishing touches on it. Plus, you have to buy all the belts and then replace them when they get worn out. A stone will last a long time and you can get replacements for them when they get worn out. yeah it does only do hollow grinds which decreases the edges durability but he just wanted to sharpen his blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrigal Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 What hasn't been mentioned ( I think) is that sometimes, just sometimes a knife with a good steel gets a shoddy heat treat and then becomes the KLO ( I do like that and will use it) Not much you can do other than send it back or strip the handle and bits off and have a crack ( go) at heat treating yourself (This is a blacksmith forum after all) Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 It is all a point of view; and of course like belly buttons most of us have one. There are a couple of things I would like to address in this thread. The first will be very familiar to anyone that has read my post in the past to anyone new to forging. Beginners need to start at the beginning. And that simply is not making blades. It is about learning fire or forge management, hammer control, body mechanics, and the use and selection of tools. A really good idea has already been mentioned; Wayne Goddards book. I would never suggest that it is as easy as going from rr spike knives to leaf springs to damascus would be the basic steps I mention above. If that works for some I can assure you it will not work for all. I am quite involved in knife making and have met a LOT of knifemakers. Almost all of them use belt grinders. Not one of them uses stone wheels to grind blades. But there may be some I have not met. WE all use a water bucket next to the belt grinder and do not allow heat to built up. And by the way I have used a lot of stone wheel grinders in welding and grinding other things and I can guarantee that when you use machinery to remove stock there is a heat build up. Hollow grinds simply do not decrease the edges durability. However poorly ground edges, no matter how they were done do exactly that. And for sure wot he asked about was help with sharpening a difficult blade. I believe he got responses that pointed him in the right direction. One that may need to be added is that the blade steel in his knife has less carbon content than mild steel. that puts it well below the linits of the carbon content that we know can be expected to take and hold an edge that can be used. If anyone would like to try a simple test that will show that take some 1018 steel and form a nice edge on it and try cutting with it. You may be surprised that you can actually get an edge. Just won't cut much. I think we need to provide the best answers from our background and varied experiences to help new folks see that they can learn how to procede in a planned educational process to get as far as they wish to go. This is not a personal attack on anyone I just wanted to share my point of view as a custom knife maker that may clear some things up. If you do not agree with my thoughts let me know with some information to support your view and I will be glad to review it. From Google: 420 stainless steel: Fe, <0.15% C, 12.0-14.0% Cr, <1.0% Mn, <1.0% Si, <0.04% P, >0.03% S Note Carbon content, C, is less than 1018 mild steel. The last two numbers in ten series steel is the carbon content..more or less, there is a range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 A.G.Russell once was tired of folks telling him how sharp their pocket knives were and flattened an Al beer can, bent it double and flattened it again and then honed it till it would shave. It just wouldn't hold an edge long enough to be useful. I have a lovey cut on my leg where the flashing from an end of an abrasively cut A36 piece laid me open like a razor; but I couldn't peel an apple with it. You can put an edge on an inferior knife; but is it worth the effort! I've seen belt grinders used to put the edge on 40" sword blades without problems with the temper and I've seen a lot of chisels detempered on a grindstone; skill is often more important than having fancy tools! (And a belt grinder can grind wood, non-ferrous metals, plastics etc where a grindstone won't!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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