Rhino 240#

[philip in china]

Well I got the 240# Rhino navil and I must say I like it a lot. I weighed it and it comes out at between 106 and 107 Kg so that makes it 234# which is 8 pounds lighter than advertised. That, of course, is within casting tolerances. I haven't done much on it yet but the wider face is good- different. Also the horn is very well machined and seems to be almost a perfect cone. Finish on the face is about as good as it could possibly be.

The amazing thing is the rebound! The tools almost seem to jump back at me.

It goes for some more testing next week- oncluding a digital microscope examination of the surface and a rebound test in a scientifically controlled environment. The results of that should be really interesting.

Then once it comes back to me from those tests I shall unleash my students on it! Now that really is testing! We have some truck axles to draw down and cut. 3 guys striking should reveal any weaknesses.

So watch this space.

[Frosty]

You're doing digital microscope examination of the surface? Are you planning on forging a space shuttle or something? I usually just bounce a small pall pein to check rebound. Then again I don't have a scientific test facility available to me.

I wonder how my 50# LG cir. 01/17/1912 would fare under a digital microscope examination of the surface? :rolleye:

Oh yeah, Congratulations! Sounds like a honey.

Frosty

[philip in china]

I just wish I knew how to post photos to the site. After a day of working with it it seems better than I could have hoped. Maybe the nickle in the alloy has made a difference, I am no metallurgist. (Many people say I am not a blacksmith either but that is largely jealousy and spite).

[new guy]

is it possible that you could add some pictures? and how do you get around rust problems? i hear that sicuan provence is really wet.

[Frosty]

Posting pics is pretty easy. First thing to do is save the pics from your camera in an easily found folder and reduce the file size to something under 200K, under 100 is even better.

Now, under the "Quick Reply" window there's a "Go Advanced" button. Click it and scroll down in the window that comes up till you see the "Manage Attachments" button and click it.

A separate window will come up with a number of "browse" buttons, click one and select a pic from the easy to find folder and click okay or whatever. Do this for each pic you wish to attach to the post and when you've selected all you want, click "Upload". When the browse button window returns empty exit it.

The pics will be attached at the bottom of your post as thumbnail links.

Some folk imbed pics directly into the post at really HIGH resolutions which is pretty annoying for folk with slower connections or a desire to read the post without having to scroll back and forth across the screen.

But what the hey, I can exit those and read someone else's easier to read thread.

Frosty

Edited May 15, 2009 by Frosty

[Avadon]

So are you using your anvil for engineering?

I guess the rest of us feel like knuckle dragging caveman beating on ore. lol. Can't say I ever had anything that went off for testing, that I didn't fill into a cup haha

[Avadon]

Are they these rhino anvils I couldn't find any actual pictures of them online. They seem a little suspiciously low in price, but all that matters is that you like it and are proud of the work you can do on your anvil.

360-lb Bubba Rhino™
$1,100.00

232-lb Papa Rhino™
$750.00

[new guy]

oh frosty i did not mean i don't know how to add pics i meant if philip in china could. I assume he can. i mean he does have a computer access so he may have a camera.

[Frosty]

Avadon:

You could E-mail them and ask for pics. I agree, they're awfully reasonably priced.

Frosty

[philip in china]

I will see if I can add pictures later in the day. At present I am burning daylight and my hammer hand is itching.

Rust is a MAJOR problem here. Sichuan is very wet and quite warm. Everything rusts. We have a specila substance we apply to all bare metal, a mixture of pigments and a slow drying organic solvent. In Chinese it is called youqi. In English it is known as paint. the sides of all the anvils are painted as are most of the tools where they don't actually contact the steel. When I leave the shop for the summer I either paint or grease the anvil faces as well. The best way is just not to let rust get hold in the first place.

[new guy]

wow. the folks in your area invented something to stop rust? that is impressive, but there is always wd40 for us americans. how do you set up your smithy in a remote (ish) area? hope you like your rhino. they sound pretty awesome.

[philip in china]

I need to clear up one misunderstanding. We are doing some tests on this anvil because we happen to have some test facilities. My work here is as rough as rough! I do not need an anvil which has been machined until it shines- quite the reverse. We have a number of students and can just tell them to get on with working on the anvil safe in the knowledge that it will be abused mercilessly! If it survives here then it will certainly be OK in the shop of anybody who takes care of his equipment!

The testing which we will be doing will be:
1. Checking all struck surfaces to see how accurate the machining is- i.e. for level and flatness. This has already been done and the one we have got is very accurate. Certainly more accurate than ever any blacksmith could ever need.
2. Checking the casting for flaws. Again this one has already been magflux tested and I am told there are no flaws. Today we will be going over the whole thing with a 100x digital microscope. If we find anything "interesting" digital images will be sent to the manufacturer for evaluation. So far we have found nothing to warrant that.
3. Overall inspection visually to examine casting quality. Some of the casting is unattractive but that is purely cosmetic. Some foundries don't care what something looks like. I happen to like an anvil (and any other tool, and a girl) to have a bit of finish rather than looking as if it has been put together by an apprentice. This one is still a bit rough but it was hurried through the finishing process so maybe the production ones will be better. An hour or two spent with a grinder around the parting line and where the riser attaches to the main casting would make it look better but would not improve it as an anvil.
4. Also the inconclusive "ring" test with a hammer. If it doesn't ring it proves nothing but if it does ring it probably excludes some types of faults in a casting. This one is deafening!
5. General using it for forge work. Well I haven't used it much yet but one feature which is immediately obvious is the wide face. That is useful for 2 opposit reasons. It is easier when you are working on your own as the metal is more supported on a wide face. This is a big help. The opposite is that in a school, like this, we sometimes have various people working on the same anvil. Tne wide face gives more area on which to work so sort of gets round that problem a bit.
6. The simple rebound test. There are 2 ways to do this. For an absolute test of rebound of the anvil you need a completely inelastic tool. It sort of needs to be a sphere so that it always hits at the same angle. (Think of a cube- it could hit flat, an edge or even a corner). The material is inelastic so you are measuring the elasticity of the anvil and not of the ball. The ball we use is a standard testing ball made out of marble. It is dropped in a glass tube from a given height. There is a scale on the tube and the bounce is measured. This is repeated a few times and any extreme variations are taken out of the measurements. (i.e. we ignore probably the highest and lowest readings). We then take a geometric average of the results and that gives us the rebound factor. (Again if we take two readings we multiply these together and take the square root of the answer to give us the value. Five readings we would multiply together and take the 5th root). This is repeated at various places on the anvil. It is also done on other anvils and some controls (probably an iron ASO and a block of concrete).
7. The hammer rebound test. This is done just like the marble ball test but with a ballbearing to simulate a hammer blow. The same tests as above- i.e. all over the anvil and on other anvils for comparability.
8. Hardness testing. This has already been done at the factory so we don't get involved.
9. Chemistry certificate. The alloy is analysed to ensure that it is upto specification. Just because you put say 0.5% nickle into an alloy doesn't mean it is spread evenly through the mix. (Just think about those hard spots in rebar for example). So a bit of the anvil is actually taken out and analysed. Again this has already been done so we don't repeat it. It is actually easy as you can use the swark from machining out the hardy hole and drilling the pritchel hole for test thereby not having to start cutting bits out of a good anvil.

Sorry to have gone on at such length but that is how WE test an anvil. Using a commercial research laboratory is a seriously expensive process asyou will raedily imagine. Using a college laboratory is cheaper. You also know, in thsi case, that all teh empirical tests have been supervised (if not actually performed) by a physics PhD. So they should have been done correctly.

It all has to be paid for and it all has to go on the price of the anvils. So that is why good anvils are expensive and ASOs are cheap! It also keeps me in a job and enables me to bore you at length on IFI.

[new guy]

well then, at least you know your anvils at that was awful interesting, not boring. still i hope it actually preforms.

[philip in china]

Please don't laugh. I was good in my day.

[new guy]

that there is a nice anvil! hope it is working well.

[Avadon]

and your doing all this testing?? Are you manufacturing these anvils? Is that the part I missed?

[Frosty]

Did you have your logo cast into the body?

Frosty

[philip in china]

We are just doing the testing here. We don't manufacture.

There is no individual logo cast into this ione- just the manufacturer's which is in the moulds of course.

[new guy]

so why do you do all this testing? is there some smithing magazine that pays you to review anvils? if there is sign me up! ;)

[philip in china]

I was asked to test this particular range of anvils. The reason is we have some facilities here, have western experience but are in China. So it just works out well.

There are several blacksmithing publications. The best thing, as you are in USA, is to join ABANA and get their newsletter.

[Frosty]

We are just doing the testing here. We don't manufacture.

There is no individual logo cast into this ione- just the manufacturer's which is in the moulds of course.

I was mostly joking but they do offer to do your logo on the anvil for an additional $50. Of course that'd be $50 that could be better used elsewhere. Be pretty cool though.

Is cool worth anything in China?

Frosty

[philip in china]

Some Chinese love to be their version of cool.

One thing that occurred to me was that if you had your logo cast in your anvil it would make it easier to recover should it ever be stolen.

[Frosty]

It sure would, a thief would have a lot of grinding to do and that would still show.

So, what's cool in China?

Frosty

[philip in china]

Also I would think that even ground off the casting would probably still show signs of the logo- maybe under polarised light or if magfluxed. To an even badly equipped forensic examiner it is almost impossible to remove such markings- like gun serial numbers etc.

Cool here is anything with western writing on it. It doesn't have to make sense or even have the letters the correct way round. If you PM me I will let you know about some of the funnier ones I have seen but they are not for a public forum.

[Avadon]

So your doing this testing because they asked you, because your a nice guy? Whats in it for you? Just for fun? Just for giggles? To teach your students something? I mean I really don't get why this is important to do or whats in it for you? Are you just helping out friends?