need help on scroll collars

[tantrum86]

Hey everyone im doing a project right now that involves a bit of scrolling and welding im looking for some ideas on some type of collar to help conceal some of the welds at the connecting points of the scrolls any ideas pics or blueprint suggestions would be great.

[bigfootnampa]

A copper or bronze wire wrap would look good there and I think you could skip the welds.
A double tapered iron rod would make a nice wrap too. Perhaps a pair of them each twining around one large and one small contact point. These might have to be wrapped hot with a torch... I think the bronze or copper could be wrapped cold.

[John B]

Not knowing material sizes you are using somewhat limits the advice to be given.

The wire wrap is a good start, but with the configuration of the scrolls and leverages involved I would weld before wrapping, otherwise there will be a tendency for the scrolls to move.

Traditionally when a collar is put on hot, the cooling process shrinks the collar to give a good tight fit

[Charlotte]

If I'm reading the sizes correctly I would use small diameter wire wrap.
Just a suggestion however. I usully think about how I'm going to fasten things as I'm doing my design. As it stands you've left your self with few options. To my eye it looks like the wire wrap would detract from the grace of your design. You could rivet the two left pieces and the two right pieces to each other then weld and wire warp. Or perhaps plug wield and let the fastening be a mystery. :)

[Mike Ameling]

The hidden welds will give you your strength. So any "collar" or wrap is just decorative to cover the welds. So a wrap with copper wire would really set it off. If you anneal the copper wire first, you should be able to wrap it fairly tight while cold. You could do the same thing with brass brazing rod, but you would need to wrap it hot. And it is surprising what a couple turns of thin round iron rod will look like. Taper and curl the ends, then wrap it around your joints hot.

A little simple calculation or experimentation with scrap will show you how long of pieces to use, where to start/end each, and any variations in the end curls/scrolls. Think of it along the likes of a grapevine growing up around a twig - those little tendrils that curl around the twig.

A traditional tapered-ends collar is nice, but you do have those two tapered ends meeting side-by-side somewhere. So that "joint" will be visible from one side. It may or may not detract from the rest of the scrolls.

Just a few humble thoughts to share.

Mikey

p.s. One more thought. Don't know how it might look, but take a long triangular strip of thin sheet, and roll/wrap it around your weld joint - starting with the widest part. Kind of like that croissant bakery roll - but without that C bend in it. An extra little scrolled curl on the end of that strip might add an extra look/touch to the joint.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Mike Ameling

[unkle spike]

Traditional collar length formula I was taught:

Total of all four sides + 1 thickness of material. Scarf the ends at opposing 45 degree or so angle to make them meet nicely, and forge weld in place.

That should get you in the neigborhood. You could form the collars, tack or fully weld them on one side, and then grind them smooth at least the weld would be where you could "get at it" to grind it.

I was taught to form a square shouldered "U" shape on a form, usually a piece of scrap stock, then slide over the piece, and hammer the "legs" into place hot either with a torch, or placing the piece in the forge. Seeing as you already have the joint welded, you would only need to hammer the end for asthetics and weld if needed.

[Sam Thompson]

Make a mandrel the same size as the parts you want to join and form the collar around it, leaving the join on the long side (one of those without the joint). Leave enough length to upset the corners square. You may need to experiment to get this right. Use a pair of pliers to open the collar up and slip it over the joint and tap it closed.

[tantrum86]

thanks everyone very much i have a lot to try, the dimensions of the meterial when starting was 3/8 mild key stock at one foot lengths with the twists and scrolled ends they come out to be apprx 10 inches long they will be used to connect four table legs that are also scrolled i'll post more pics as i move forward with the project this weekend.