Glenn Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Duck is having problems annealing files. He heats to red and then put the hot file in ashes to cool slowly. When the file is cool, it is still to hard to drill etc. Any suggestions on how to soften this file ? Thanks, Duck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 First let me say that files befuddle me. That is the basis for why I like to use new metal for knives. I used a lot of knives in the far past and had a pretty good handle on how to anneal, harden and temper,,really consistant material...get an old file work it over into a knife and repeat as often as I could. In the last four or five years the files have changed,,for a lot of them I have tried some do not act like what I am used to. The same methods that worked only work part time now. I have always oil hardened. With ones that failed I have tried air,,then oil (again) then water. Never did get to brine. just tossed them into learning pile and made mental notes. All this to say that what I might suggest might not work! I use vermiculite to anneal carbon steels. Keep in mind that it will suck the water out of a jet contrail passing over your shop at 32,000 feet. I use a metal bucket with a lid and seal it when not in use. Heat until a magnet does not stick and put it in the bucket, cover with lid and check the next day. This works everytime for me on HC steels,,,and sometimes on files, Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 It doesn't sound like the file is getting hot enough at only a red heat, of course colors are subjective. Getting it to nonmagnetic should be a better standard to go by. I use a metal 15 gallon barrel full of wood ashes to anneal. Put the metal into the middle of it, shake to settle it down, cover and leave overnight or until I get back to it. I've forgotten about having something in there only a couple of times, but found it when I put another piece in to anneal. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolano Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Well, the most expensive files are still W2 or W1, generally. However, many file makers have switched to case hardened files, which lowers what they cost significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 If the file is pretty small there might not be enough heat in it to keep the temp high when placed in the annealing medium. Heat up a "helper" piece of metal to the same temp and put *both* of them in at the same time. Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 I have never had much success with wood ashes and have better luck annealing stuff by placing in the gas forge after an evening of forging (so the forge is plenty hot) then turning it off after the subject piece has soaked a bit. I have to pay attention since the forge is usually running way above austenitizing temps so I turn it off before the piece is the same color as the fire. Wrap the piece in foil if scale is an issue to the final product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_rod Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Just an idea. I had a similar problem with files until I figured out that the rest of the file was soft, it was just work-hardening under the drill. There is a bit of an art to drilling toolsteels, even when annealed properly. You need a very sharp bit, ground to exactly the correct rake angle. Use a lot of coolant and try to drill smoothly and quickly without stopping. If the swarf is showing any heat colours at all reduce the driling pressure. For larger holes use pilot drill first. The pilot drill should be the same diameter as the chisel point width of the final size bit. This will prevent the chisel point of the large drill scrubbing on the steel and causing local hardening. If all else fails, simply drill the file while it is red hot. That way you know it's not too hard. HSS drillbits will stand this easily. one_rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted D. Noland Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Hey Thanks for the helpful site. You have no idea how hard it has been to find good advice. I think I've found it at last. Good to be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messerist Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I use old files and rasps almost exclusively. I found a huge supply several years ago and they were free...and rusty. I forge mine to shape. Some knife-makers will just anneal and grind or grind and try and keep the hardness in the steel by cooling the worked stock while grinding. As I mentioned I forge mine. After forging I heat the blade-to-be(I never know if will be a knife until I sharpen it) to non-magnetic, allow it to cool to room temperature and repeat, three times. Then I heat it once more to non-magnetic and put the hot steel in "preheated" wood ashes. Left overnight to cool I have no problems working the annealed steel with hand files and drills. Working with new files is a mystery to me since I have yet to do it. As some of the posts to this thread have mentioned I think the quality may be questionable on newer files. I hope I have helped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYBOY Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I use a lot of nicholson and old Black diamond files..They all have made outstanding blades for me..I heat to a bit past non-magnetic and completely cover in a deep bucket of hardwood ash's..That has always worked well for me..I do make sure and only use those two brands though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nashdude Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 It doesn't sound like the file is getting hot enough at only a red heat, of course colors are subjective. Getting it to nonmagnetic should be a better standard to go by. Was about to say the same thing. Good tip on the wood ashes, though :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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