Ecart Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Things have been a bit tough lately as everyone can attest to. Since January, I have worked a week-on-week-off schedule. Well, I've also gotten several orders for meat cleavers. I didn't advertise or anything, the people came to me! (What a blessing!!!). So I'm finishing the last one today that I have an order for. This morning, I went into the hardware store that is owned by the mill where I work to pick up some epoxy. I told the store manager about the cleavers. He wants me to make some so he can sell them in the store! This got me to thinking. When I was a kid, every kitchen in America had at least one butcher knife in it. Now they are few and far between. I've heard many people lamenting the loss of good butcher knives. I have a good supply of .100 plate circular saw steel. I am thinking of making some butcher knives out of it. Finally on to the question: What is needed for a butcher knife to be considered "good?" Will it need a differential temper for chopping or in case it bends? What about length? I was thinking an overall length of 12" would be a good starter. So, what do my fellow forumites think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy seale Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 well,ecart, i don't know that steel but if it has enough carbon, should work good. but you need to concider stainless,pins etc. and make it dish washer friendly.remember acids from fruits/veggies are hard on carbon blades, so that may be a factor on there usage. but don't take my word for that as outhers here are more qulified to give you a better openion, any way congrats on the extra work,i hope it works out for you, be well, jimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecart Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Thanks Jimmy. Those are certainly things to be considered. I had not thought of them before. As for carbon content, it is a high carbon steel. It is most likely L6, but I really should send off a sample to be tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 As I had stated many times before, Its best to use a known steel. Especially when you have a client ordering them. it would be a shame to have a difference in steel in one of your saw blades, and kill your business Learning with salvage is fine, but have some respect for yourself, and your paying clients, and use known solid metals, it will go farther than any apology for a bad blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecart Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Thanks Steve, will keep it in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisfrick Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I love cooking, and I love knives, but have yet to make myself one (been focusing on camp knife stuff). I *do* know what makes a good chef knife and actually prefer the longer blades (10 inch-that's the length of the blade alone, not blade + handle)--a lot of people like the shorter ones, though (8 inch). If you can, google Shun knives by Kershaw--very nice, high carbon center with SS laminated sides friction welded to the inner carbon piece. They also have a "D" shaped handle design that's very comfortable. I don't have any, as they are way beyond my budget, but have tried them out several times and really like them. If you can, go to kitchen supply stores and look/feel the "high end" chef knives and also take note of the various blade grinds/designs and also ask the salesperson what they think of them and what they would most likely use a specific blade design for (chopping vegetables vs. carving a turkey). And as mentioned before, food produces some rather nasty chemical interactions with steel (I'm thinking that's why most knives used for food are stainless?). Hope my ranting helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucegodlesky Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 If you have a ready supply of sawblade material, go ahead and send a piece off for testing. Then ya know what steel it is. If it's acceptable, then use it. Some of the most popular kitchen knives in this country are Ontarios' Old Hickory. Made with good old 1095. I use a lot of sawblade material which I have tested. I know exactly what it is and trust it. Good luck in this venture! bruce/birdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecart Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Thanks for all of the advice. Chris: I really like the idea of going to a kitchen supply store OR finding a chef to talk to. Bruce and Steve: I agree it would be much better to know what you have and how to work with it - if it's workable. I don't want to be guilty of asking for advice then not listening to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I think that you need to carefully consider your target market here: are you making these for the sort of people who will appreciate a good knife and are willing to not abuse it, to maintain it, to look after it or are you making these for people who don't really know, appreciate or care about knife maintenance, who won't properly maintain a carbon blade, who will chuck it in the dishwasher with the washing-up and then store it unguarded in the drawer with the salad tongs, a barbecue fork and the eggbeater? Carbon steel can make an excellent blade but needs some maintenance. One of my favourite kitchen knives is a 10" straight blade about 1/16" thick, forged from leaf-spring by a Sri Lankan smith in a backwoods jungle smithy. It's crude, pretty only in its simplicity and can't be left wet but that guy sure knows how to heat-treat! Stainless can also be make into a good blade but it's less straightforward than carbon steel; it's generally harder to heat-treat than carbon and often can't be hand-forged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecart Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 I'm really considering the whole food safety thing here since my original post. I doubt anyone who buys a butcher knife from a hardware store is going to be really concerned with how they care for the knife. But then again I could be wrong, they could treasure it and take very good care of it. The guys around here take their grilling very seriously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisfrick Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Maybe throw in a "no B.S." warranty-it's not covered if they do something with it that they weren't supposed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecart Posted March 28, 2009 Author Share Posted March 28, 2009 Sorry I didn't reply. It's been pretty busy around here for the past couple of days. The warranty wouldn't be a bad idea these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 My only concern would be not using stainless. While there are regular carbon blades on the market, most food safety organizations frown on it, probably because of the rust factor. Around my area, the only knives allowed in a commercial kitchen are stainless, however if this isn't you're intended market I would just put something in with the knife that lists the "Care & Feeding" of a non-stainless blade. Otherwise, good luck on your venture! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecart Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 Yeah, I would be aiming more at the home kitchen, backyard bbq, pig-picking guys here in NC. Many of these folks hate stainless as much as I do. I'm going to be contacting a couple of people about a good way to care for carbon steel. My advice to folks that buy my cleavers at the present is to wash it off in hot soapy water, dry it and oil it down with veg oil or olive oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokshasa Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 thats a pretty good tip to be giving, be carefull as well about your handles, a nice tight seal so that food and blood and the such dont get it there, specially with wood handles. but then again it depends on the stile of the knife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Yeah, I would be aiming more at the home kitchen, backyard bbq, pig-picking guys here in NC. Many of these folks hate stainless as much as I do. I'm going to be contacting a couple of people about a good way to care for carbon steel. My advice to folks that buy my cleavers at the present is to wash it off in hot soapy water, dry it and oil it down with veg oil or olive oil. Stay away from olive oil. It can and will go rancid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecart Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 Thanks for the info. Avoid olive oil. Also make sure handles are sealed and secured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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