Paul Kin

No problem! Better safe then exploded!

Ahh I see! I will go over it again. Its very crammed with good info. I just have to go over it a few more times to understand it haha...

Careful! The hose is not stainless, just stainless braided on the outside. The hose itself is still just regular rubber propane hose so it is still susceptible to heat and will melt if your not careful.

Haha I would love to be the guinea pig if it was a bit cheaper... but I will call Canadian forge and farrier this week and see if theres a way to get a smaller amount. Now that Ive built and actually used this forge today, I am hooked... its bad. Like I need a forgeaholics anonymous group or something. I need to build more till I find the perfect one! I foresee possible near future marriage problems over this haha. Anyway, I spent the last hour going over Ron Reils page. I think Im more confused then when I started.. but I will continue on over the next week. I think I have an image of what it looks like in my head at least.

Irondragon I meant to thank you a few posts back in reference to the refractory and I thanked Frosty instead sorry! So thanks! Frosty, I will read it over a few times this week to absorb as much as I can. But from what I see SO FAR I think it makes sense! I hope. Mikey, the Ron Reil tip linear burner, is that another name for the EZ burner? That seems to be what Im finding. I will continue to read up on It tho! thanks everyone! Again haha!

This is the site I should reference for the Reil burner I assume? https://ronreil.abana.org/design1.shtml there is soooo much on “Reil burners” that I dont which is “Reil” hehe

Thanks Frosty. That stuff is still beyond me... Im not entirely sure what needs to be in refractory.. I may just spend the the extra on the Kastolite but will do my research before I buy. Just wanted to see if anyone has experience with it here.

Thanks Mikey! Hmm I will have to do some research then. I have time though. Still have to order the new refractory. Oh and you guys are going to LOVE this! So since this forge is now running and works great, I am planning a NARB! haha! I know, why not leave it as is when it really works great? Well I am going to for now but I would like a ribbon burner eventually. So Im going to do as Frosty did and experiment with wood blocks for now. But I will bug you guys with that later if I have problems. Only question I have left, would KALAKAST AR ADTECH CASTABLE work for relining the walls/casting a NARB? I cant find any info about people using it in forges but it looks like its just a less expensive mizzou... and $30/bag cheaper then Kastolite. Sorry for being so all over the place here guys.

Sounds good to me! I will keep running it. Trying to get a friend to figure out what he wants for a forge then We will make another order and I will re-line this one properly! Oh and I had just enough wool left to do doors and another mini forge! Its about 70 cu/inches. 4” wide 6” long tubular chamber with a flat floor. Would a 1/2” T burner be to big or just about right? I figured for little hooks and knives, something easy on fuel would be nice to have. This is it so far Thanks guys!

So I dont think the burners need much for tuning! This is the dragons breath when cranked right up: And heres the burners at a lower forging heat: thats the best pic I could get of the burners with my phone. I dont know if its the IR or just the heat but it was tough to get. Its funny though, my wood fired forge doesnt even put out 1/4 of the radiant heat that this propane forge does! I can reach into the wood burner with 12” tongs without a glove easily. The propane, I have a hard time with 23” tongs!

Binesman, thats an interesting way to look at it. And definitely true. I certainly want to learn, which is why Im here asking now. Partly for myself and partly so that I can relay what Ive learnt. Especially to my boys when they are old enough.

Buzzkill thats a good way to put it! Depending on the type of business of course lol. Mikey, maybe I should just run it a bit more then? I did the second curing cycle last night so it should be ok now to use right? I will run it a bit this weekend and see. I have extremely good ventilation so Im not worried if it puts out more CO then usual.

Good point! Most of my knowledge comes from my mistakes. But I am fairly good at taking my time at some things, like blacksmithing for instance. When something doesnt work out I always stop and find out why. Either by reading or just going over it in my head. Most of what I make comes strait from my minds eye. Ok so if it needs more air, the mig tip is trimmed to far correct? My understanding is that not enough air can be 3 basic things with these burners. 1. Wrong size T. But I am now using the 1x3/4x1 T 2. Mig tip is to big? I am using the standard .35 tips though so I will leave them for now. 3. Last reason and I believe its the one I should look at, the trimmed tips are not inducing enough air. They are trying to push now rather then pull the air. Correct me if Im wrong of course! I made a stupid mistake and trimmed them ~1/16” before the forge was done cause they werent running well out of the forge.... I know I know! I even scorned myself as I was deburing them. So I will put my new tips in and try it. IF that doesnt get enough air in, I will tap the 1/8 npt holes a bit more. I purposely left them tight for this reason. Its quite difficult to untap pipe thread . But I promise Ill do one at a time! Ive made enough mistakes on this forge already. Oh you and my wife would both agree on that Frosty! She was always the one asking for help when we built our house cause I dont like to bother people. I built my shop, raised every timber, entirely on my own for that reason. I also enjoy working alone though. Thats a good point JHCC! I should practice that more often...

Haha thanks Frosty. Ya this sort of thing happens from time to time. I learn best through mistakes it seems! But I already knew this. lol well no there was no gun or person for that matter. More or less my impatience to use the thing asap... which is essentially the same thing with me haha! I dont often ask for help and even more rarely ask for clarification so thats on me! I do often read and re-read and so on. Thats entirely how I learned blacksmithing infact! It was a lot of reading, trial, error, more reading, and repeat. All your guys help and understanding is huge to me. It also helps me help others so you in turn are also helping others! And we all appreciate it! How do the flames look though? I mean its not hot but once it was running about 45 seconds it seemed to run really good pretty much through the whole range of the regulator... there was also 6-10” of dragons breath through the range too so not enough O2 possibly?

Here it is! Seems to work well from lowish psi all the way up. Only ran for a few mins. Wanted to see how long to get the steel hot but it wasnt long enough. Its cooling now and I will fire it later tonight again then it should be set! I think? and yes, as you predicted and I did realize, the cement is not happy at all... but I think Ill get a few heats out of it.

I know... it was my only option for the time being. It costs right over $1/pound to ship the refractory here and the faster shipping took a week... so I am just hoping to get exactly that out of the stove cement. Tune the burners and heat treat 2 blades. The burners point strait down onto the mizzou floor so Im hoping the cement lasts long enough for that. I tried my best to listen I promise! I have a really hard time fully understanding read words sometimes. Hence why I failed grade 10, then graduated early after moving to a school with all the basic trades lol. But that was a decade + ago now anyway. Thats just to help you understand why I dont always seem to listen . I do appreciate all the help you guys give though! And I am very careful about being careful! I have worked as a mechanic, welder, and a miner in the last 10 years so I do have a lot of experience with dangerous things and how not to get hurt.

Yes sorry its lined! Sort of... I did the floor 1/2” thick, let it dry then started the the walls/ceiling. Problem was, the floor used 3/4 of the 13.75 lb pail... so I managed to coat the burner holes and ceiling and it was all gone. Had to improvise with this stuff on the walls: so we will see if the walls hold up at all... I know a lot of Canadians are using it in small forges with limited success so maybe itll last a few firings... Ill see after I get a chance to fire it I guess. But I will be ordering some of that kalacast AR tech refractory soon. Cheaper even then mizzou! And still 60% alumina.

My materials are here! I plan to put it together this weekend and I had some questions. Canadian forge and farrier finally got 13lb pails of mizzou and 1” wool in stock so I made the order. I didnt get the rigidizer cause there was a really good chance it would freeze before it got here... and its supposed to be -10 all week at night next week still too and I wanted it before we all get locked down... I will try to find colloidal silica here in town though. Anyway, for the burner holes I was going to screw 3/4” nipples into the thread protectors going into the forge and cast the mizzou around them. Essentially extending the “flare”. Does that sound right? Or am I going way overboard here? If that does sound right, should I weld on some sort of mechanical way for the mizzou to stay up there? Like a short piece of ss exhaust with teeth like an axe bit ready to be welded in if you get what Im saying... Im terrible at explaining things sorry. Im worse at understanding things without pics though! I will post pics of my ideas tonight if I get a chance!

One thing to note is the super 3000 is a refractory mortar, whereas the moldit X is a refractory cement. My understanding is that the mortar is more of a crack sealer/brick repair and the cement is meant to be thicker like a forge lining. But a lot of the Canadian bladesmiths seem to use the super 3000. Some say it bubbles, some dont. But I can find almost nothing on the moldit X... not sure which way to go here.

Ok I have made many phone calls today... my only option for non bulk 8# 2600° wool is in 2” thickness. I will have to just go with that instead of 2 layers of 1” I suppose. I was just about to pull the trigger on the moldit X cement when they said, oh we also have vesuvius super 3000! Its a pre mixed mortar rated to 3000. 5 gallons is $106, 1 gal is $57. I did some looking and it seems to be the go to for many Canadian bladesmiths. I have until tomorrow morning to decide. Have you guys heard of the super 3000? Could coat a lot of forges with 5 gallons!

Thanks Frosty. So maybe 1 bag of vesuvius and the kaowool then. That would also give me lots of patches and maybe even build another forge! One other thing, I read about pizza oven guys using stainless needles for structure in the refractory. Much like rebar in concrete. But I havent seen anything about it in forge builds..?? Is it not a concern in forges? The roof wont collapse?

I forgot to add rigidizer! Like I said, I do plan to follow your guys directions. It may cost me now, but I really think it will save me in the long run.

Ok so you guys saw my last attempt in the “need help burner angle” thread. I tried my best to use what I had on hand and, as you guys predicted, it did not work. So, I am going to do exactly what I should have in the beginning, follow your advise! Shipping kills me here in northern BC but not much choice. Im still on a tight budget but I think I have it figured out... I think. forge body: the shape is based fully on 2 things; 1st being the firebricks I had on hand, 2nd is on the type of work I want it for. Its roughly 530 ci with 2 - 3/4” Frosty T burners. The walls/roof/floor are 2.5”. Now, the brick was a down right failure. You guys knew it would be, I was thick skulled as usual and tried anyway... So time to listen! My rough plan is 2” kaowool with kast-o-lite 30 over it. I can get enough wool and KOL shipped and still be within my budget of about $150. Another option, theres a place in Prince George that sells something called moldit x. I believe its vesuvius brand and might have 47% alumina and is rated to 3000°. Thats all the info I could find on it. 55lb bags for $80 and a friend of mine is in PG for a couple more days... 2 bags should cast the whole forge. It puts me a hair over budget but its doable. But I think this would be a major heat sink, like the bricks no?

Ok I got the go ahead from the wife if I sell my hand pew pew. (Not sure the rules on firearm talk). Anyway, that gives me the budget to order enough 2” wool and a 9 lb pail of cast-o-lite 30 from Canadian forge and farier. Will this work out? It seems like a 1/2-3/4” layer of cast-o-lite over 1-2” wool is a fairly common thing from what I have been reading. What do you guys think?

Just found a source of refractory in Prince George! (4 hours away) $80 for a 55 lb bag! Its called ocl moldit x. I cant find much info about it but the guy says its rated to 3000°. I happen to have a friend in PG until thursday...