urnesBeast

I just got galvi stove pipe. It was thin. Doug

So, with the rebuild of the smithy, I of course, want to expand. It turns out that due to (incredibly forward looking and completely appropriate) [edited after language reprimand ] local zoning, I am not legally allowed to build "'roofs on more than 25% of the land I own". I am limited to 10x19, a shed can not be two stories here either. Now 10x19 is pretty nice, but I have had my heart on 10x28 since we started drawing up plans and already I have that pretend smithy full of woodworking tools... So, one of the options is to add on to the house. This requires footings so deep, that you might as well make a basement while doing that. Basically, I would have smithy in the basement and woodworking above. Is this a bad idea? I am concerned about the smell of coal, Possible fire danger Dust from the woodroom in the house Other things that I can not think of.

I had one fabricated to the specs shown in the Hofi print. 15 foot tall stack. The only problem that I had is that once I was not holding my hammer real tight and it got sucked up in the draft. I had to get it out of my neighbors yard...

I have had problem with the gorilla and coal dust. I could not get it off, but I could get the "stickiness to everything other than my hands" to stop: wash your hands in talcum powder. The talc will get stuck to the gorrialla and then your hands are no longer sticky. From there, is is about a week of looking like you have a weird skin disease. -Doug

I just paid $100 for a post vice in Boston area also. I wonder if Doug C and I were both buying from the same blacksmith that just closed up shop...

I am not a welder either, and I started with a gasser. What I did was use patio stone (18"x18") to go under the forge, then a wooden frame of 2x4 holding it up. I was told the forge would bend the plate steel of a table unless it was protected somehow. The wood frame got singed a little, but if all the wood were under the patio block, it would do just fine. Doug

I just put an old heating pad under the slack tub and turned it on. Not sure if that was electricity efficient or not, but it was easy.

I have been looking for a commercially produced coal forge and have only found the ones at Centaur. They look 'portable' but do not seem to have the gravitas or presence of an old commercial forge I use at the teaching forge I attend. I see plenty of blowers, and firepots, but not the actual tables. I suspect that if I want a version of the large and heavy steel forge I know from the classroom, I am going to have to talk to a fabricator. Do you know of sources of pre-built coal forges?

Hofi, I tried writing to your website about when your classes are scheduled for, but have gotten no reply yet. The New York class was delayed, I want to take a class, but do not know when your next basics is. How many do you need for a class? Doug

Everyone, I will be printing this thread and discussing with the contractor. These are exactly the kind of things I was curious about. Lighting: I just went to homeDepot.com, I could not find 6' bulbs! So, we do need to go with something different. I will look into solar tubes and skylights. The hose bib: I have hot and cold taps at the house right near the shed. My father is a plumber. The way the land is, getting water in would be a real pain to get below the frost line, and drainage near on impossible. Likely solution, run two hoses the 15 feet into a little utility tub that drains onto the ground. As for the power: The contractor is also a hobby hot rod builder. He totally "gets it" with respect to power needs. He was advocating 220 and big amperage out there. I suspect it is but an oversight on the call-out. He is a reasonable guy, not trying to cut corners on me. Keep coming with the tips, I have a "sign off" in a few days. Then we get started. Thanks, Doug

Charlotte, I am in Boston. Only the west side is not within 5-8 foot of a stockade fence. Thankfully, the west is where the light is coming from during my hours. The second "man" door is a possibility. I will just have to purchase it since we have already agreed on a price for the building. I would put that on the side. Skylights are right out for reliability and leakage. Those solar tubes look more reliable. Any idea on price? They don't come out and tell you on their site, so I suspect $$$$

I am planning the smithy rebuild after my fire. The short of the plan from contractor: ---------------- 1. Permit stuff 2. Fire clean up stuff 3. concrete slab a. all necesary prep work b. metal rebarb c. frame 2'x2' box out of 3/4" foam board for powerhammer slab d. pour 6" concrete slab e. smooth finish on floor f. pour 2'x2' box for powerhammer 4. Frame 10'x28' wood structure a. 2x4 wood walls b. 2x8 wood roof frame c. 1/2" texture 111 sheathing d. 5/8 plywood on roof e. install 4- windows f. install double 36" steel door 5. Roof a. install ice and water barrier b. install 15lb. felt paper c. install aluminum drip edge d. install roof shingles (match shingles on house) e. install cobra vent f. install ridge cap 6. Electrical a. Install 60 amp sub panel b. install main disconect at door c. install outlets across back wall d. install 3 exterior lights to be switched from house e. all finish electrical devices and plates f. Install 4- 6' flourecent lights 7.Insulation a. insulate walls to MA code b. insulate cieling to MA code c. install fire rated caulking in all vertical holes 8. Sheetrock and mud+ tape a. install sheetrock on all walls and cieling b. mud and tape all seams c. fill all screw holes with mud (joint compound) 9. Finish carpentry a. install 2 1/2" colonial casing around all windows and doors b. install 3 1/2" base molding at base of all walls 10. Clean up a. all job related trash will be removed from site b. all tools will be removed from site c. job site will be broom swept clean ---------------- I get a solid feeling about this contractor. The other bidders proved themselves to be disreputable/unreliable/undesirable very quickly. I like this guy. Answers his phone, returns calls, and has been very specific that communication is important in doing this. Some of the features I like in the building: Thick cement floor- these do not burn so easy... (decided against dirt because I might want this too be for woodworking in the future) Drywall eight feet up- this does not burn so easy... A ridiculous amount of electrical outlets, all turned off by one master "Frankenstein switch" Pretty mush said "just tell me how many and where" I will leave a few always on electrical outlets for the heating pad to keep slack tub from freezing We will leave a few areas of the floor thicker and vibration isolated for anvil and future power hammer. Double door, big enough for big stuff. One wall long enough for full length stock Door in right place to get full length stock in from driveway easily Enough room to flip over a 10" bar inside Now is the time to think about things that can be done to make the smithy better. The contractor is very open to doing other reasonable things that are not on the list. I am reasonable with him, he is with me. Are one south facing window, three west facing windows and a double door enough natural light? Do I want the forge near the double door? A second door away from the other?

As a administrator-type on a discussion group in the technology area, I can assure you these kinds of problems: -People posting but not searching for their own answers -People asking poorly formed questions -New people not getting calibrated to the culture before posting -Old people getting tired of seeing the above happen over again The saying "Don't feed the troll" often applies, meaning "Ignore bad behavior" The best solution I have seen to these problems is to implement a system that encourages good questions, and rewards desirable behavior: Stack Overflow This is a question answering site that is tuned to programming question. It works best for questions that can be answered so I am not sure it works here. If the Powers That Be are interested, I understand there is a free version of the software that runs their site. I can help locate it. -Doug

He could not have started it because I was wearing my tin foil hat that night. And yes, I had forged my tin foil cap with the shiny side out (beware, it DOES NOT WORK the other way!)

That is an excellent point, I am not able to get into to inspect anything right now. Once the insurance guy arrive, we can go look through the wreckage. An ex-cop was telling me that this was an exceptionally hot fire, so the temperature shock you mention is a real danger. Thanks

Funny you should say that, see my new thread: http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/what-do-when-your-smithy-burns-down-11145/ To save the suspense, no one was hurt.

Everyone, I woke up to bright sunshine in my face at 1:30am this morning. I thought, "Gee, I don't feel refreshed." I look out to see my smithy on fire. I called 911, and had the fire trucks here a minute or two later. Complete loss of the structure, only the anvil was left standing. I think it is still warm. Lessons learned: I stored my propane tanks outside. The fire department appreciated this. I knew the exact locations and amounts of fuel in the area. The smithy was a standalone building, with proper setbacks. Minimal damage to my house and the neighbors on two sides. Questions: An insurance adjuster followed the firetrucks in. He wants 10% of the check if he works with me. It sounds like a good deal. I suspect that one false step with the insurance company and things do not go my direction. Is the anvil still good, or did it lose its heat treatment? Hammers, etc... Any advice?

I gather he makes firepots, but Google does not know how to find him... Any help?

In the interest of saving someone else the trouble, here is a forge that worked for me for exactly 26 firings of 2 to 8 hours each, averaging about 3. For whatever reason, I have fallen in love with the idea of using refractory cement to cast my own firepot. I think I like the idea of doing it myself, and I do not have access to the metal working items needed to make my own firepot. I do not like the idea of spending $200 plus for a firepot, and still not having a table to put it in. After looking around at all the designs, I was against the brake drum forge, it seemed to be not the right shape for a forge. The just plain dirt in a trash can did not strike me as a good idea. Here is what I did, and why it failed. Went and bought a bag of refractory cement. This stuff is rated for 1800 degrees and 10,000 cycles. They use it for crematoriums, it is not home depot cement that is going to spalt on you, the price of $40 a bag reflects that. I made a form out of 2x4, 18"x18"x10.5" I got a 3/4 pipe through the bottom of the form and filled it. I used a large wooden nut to use as the mold for the firepot. I did not reinforce it with rebar or anything. It was still cold out, so I let it sit inside for a day or two to cure, then moved it outside into the smithy, leaving an incadesent light right on top of it for a few days to cure. By the time I was ready a few days later to get the nut out and start a small wood fire to cure it, the nut was stuck in very well. It was a wooden nut, I needed a wood fire. First problem solved. I burned the thing out. Other than the fact that I did not have a chimney yet, this was a fine plan. I now have a cured cement firepot. I order a chimney made to Uri Hofi's specs. It is the side draft. I install it. It is a thing of beauty. I build a table to hold up my heavy fire pot. I make a very bad assumption that 2x4s will work. I also decide to leave the form around the firepot, because, "what the hell" right? Guys like Frosty are laughing (with me) because they know what is going to happen on the first marathon session of forging... I make the table out of patio brick, supported by the 2x4 table. Table is 54"x36" First firing: It works, the fire pot is WAY too deep. Like 6 inches radius spherical hole. It takes a lot of coal to go in there and the sweet spot of the fire is too low. The air pipe is too small. It does make fire, it lit the first time, and the chimney draws so well my hammer got sucked into the updraft and I had to get it out of my neighbors yard. Things go well for a while with short sessions. I decide the pot is too big. I break up a fire brick, get some clay from the craft store, build or the pot to three inches deep. Fire up. This solves the shape problem, but now clinker sticks to the clay. It never stuck to the refractory cement. Marathon session: On one of the first five hour sessions, where I really had the fire humping the whole time, I notice smoke coming from under the table. It is going up the chimney, nothing is on fire. I ignore. This happens again, but more so on an eight hour session. It keeps smoldering. I tear the table off, and see my form is now made of charcoal. I don't burn charcoal, I burn coal. This is of moderate concern to me. I tear off enough of the form to stop this, and hope for the best. This keeps happening until all the form is off, but pretty much any wood that was within 4 inches of the firepot has charcoaled to the point of not being structurally sound. I knew this was not sustainable, I was just hoping to get through to my show on the 25th (two weeks), then rebuild. Final Failure: With the form no longer there, I notice smoke much sooner and it is not going up the chimney. I tear the table apart again, this time the fire pot has broken into three pieces. See photos for the broken pot, burned table, and what was left of the form (sitting in my slack tub to extinguish it) What I will do next time: If I go with a cast firepot, I am going to build an all brick enclosure. I will make the firepot separate entity in the forge so that it can be replaced easily. I think the refractory cement is a win. It does not collect clinker, does not spalt. If it is made thick enough, supported correctly, is reinforced with rebar, I think it can make a very long lived and happy firepot. Key words for people that are searching forge design cement clay refractory cement fire pot firepot chimney side draft DIY cheap forge hairdryer blower

I should give credit to my instructor at Prospect Hill Forge in Boston. This was my model: Prospect Hill Forge - YoungDragonSmall I do like the idea of making him more functional. Maybe making him balance an incense cone holder on the tongue or a small candle. I have been setting a breath mint on his tongue in the office. He would not work for incense in stick form. It is hard to tell from photos, but the tongue has a graceful curve. I bet I could straighten it and put the incense hole in the mouth. I think I started with this being all about the tongue, but now it is all about the wings. I am thinking of giving him a tongue-ectemy, but it seems wrong to make a major modification to a piece after I have declared it finished. I was hoping to do a more graceful attachment of the wings, and will try next time. I kind of like the whimsical way it looks like he tied them on himself- thus "Icarus Wyrm" Thanks for comments. I think my instructor pulled off the tongue much better. What is it about his that makes it work? I think it is relatively shorter, and he has a bottom lip. This brass wash that Frosty mentions. How is that done? I already used an angle grinder with brass wire wheel, but that only goes so far. It was done cold. Thanks, Doug

I call it Icarus Wyrm I just finished this the other day. 1/2 square stock, a bit of roofing copper, and one strand of copper wire. About four hours work, partly because of poor planning. When I do another of these, I would draw out nearer the head before doing anything to form the head. I would cut the "easy to burn horns" as late as possible. I would add a bottom lip so the tongue is more obviously a tongue. Not sure if this will sell or not. Looking for about $180, but that seems high to me. -Doug

Eric, This is not the fireplace cement. This is the stuff they use in creamatoriums. Pricey stuff, but rated for 2000 degree at thousands and thousands of cycles. I made the pot too deep, so I have had to fill it in with kitty litter clay, but the refactory cement is going very strong!

Sorry, when I said concrete, I meant refactory cement, rated to 2000 degrees. Was in a hurry to get out the door.

Actually, I was thinking one big blower that forks to two or three branches, each with its own ball valve. I like three different pipes because I want a longer, or shorter fire at different times. I just rethought thought your idea, that makes sense also, with finer control. I think the idea would be like a slide whistle... I also played with the idea that the firepot is actually a removable block of concrete, and that I can pull out different firepots for different jobs. It is good that it is replaceable in the brick housing, but realistically, I do not think I would change it, so I want to have the three valve design. -Doug

I have a gas forge, but 8x8 is pretty big to fit in there. Plus the thing throws off a lot of heat. Fine in the winter, but it is getting warmer.