GNJC

I spoke to the foundry this afternoon and will head over later in the week to pick up some blocks. The boss sounded a bit gloomy, so I'm not quite sure what to expect. I do know that he was a bit irked by the previous 'failure rate' and gave a pretty broad hint that if I wasn't happy with things this time it would be time to part brass rags once and for all. Of course there are other foundries (some mentioned earlier and others I know too) but even the cheapest would mean a price rise of over £50 and that is assuming that they can cast the blocks well enough. I'll post pics of the blocks I get as and when I have them (probably Friday). Thoughts and advice on this matter gratefully received.

Good questions to ask - and some good replies too. I'm a very amateur smith and like making old fireside cooking kit, for this I need to use swage blocks quite a lot - both industrial and 'artistic' - and cone mandrels now and then. I think your plan of watching and waiting for the right kit is spot on, if you see tools in good conditon at a good price get them! At the worst you can re-sell later and get your money back, maybe with a bit of profit too. Although I've no illusions about my expertise, I'd like to go semi-professional eventually, making cooking kit to order; to that end - and again, like you, while I can spare the cash - I have bought equipment that I think has future potential for me, when I have seen it at the right price. Get the biggest cone mandrel you can, it will be easy to move if you need to and you will always be able to sell it if want to. A bit of advice that I have not seen above... don't buy a swage block that is too big to move easily! For me a 12"x12"x4" industrial block is ideal, the 14"+ ones are just too big to turn around at whim. (Of course, if you are buying for investment or for heavy workshop use this may not apply)

The first lot of new castings have been done, I've not been to the foundry but the foreman reckons only one is up to par. He'll do a few more with an extra top riser and I'll 'phone him on Monday (24th) to see how they come out. As before, I'm not keen to pass on blocks that I think aren't to a sufficiently high standard; although, following advice / feedback, I'm not going to be quite as fastidious as before since people seem happy to do a fair bit of dressing themselves. Three children was the original plan and still is... sometimes.

Hi, yes casting is being done tomorrow and Monday, I was waiting for the results before posting anything though, since even with the right temp' and alloy the results are not guaranteed. Apologies, I must admit that I've not been on the case as much as I ought - a new baby and and an old parent have taken up far more time than I'd have thought possible... a second child really does involve far more than a 100% more work than the first!

Thanks for that John; the foundry does take its time, but big advantages are its prices, proximity and the fact that the foreman is a pretty decent bloke. Downs has been suggested by someone else, so they must do pretty good work to be so well thought of.

A while ago the DIY shop Homebase were selling what they called 'flooring' hammers for less than £5, these were a fair-looking 800g cross-pein. The hammer I start forging most bits with is a very old 3 1/2 lbs straight pein, it moves the metal well without needing to be forced down. After that I have cross peins at 3lbs, 2lbs and 1 1/2 lbs, different jobs need diferent hammers. I prefer a cross / straight pein hammer for general forging, a ball pein is only used for rivets and raising / doming. I think if I had to choose just one I'd choose the big straight pein. That written, I know a farrier in the next village who only ever uses a 2lb ball pein when he isn't making shoes, and he can do some pretty good things with it too.

As of this afternoon the pattern is back at the foundry (which is busy as always!). I'll let everyone know once there are good castings ready. G.

Hmm... there are a lot of features on there. I wouldn't be worried about them being too close to each other, they are well spaced for cast iron let alone tool steel. I think you have too many near-duplicated features, 13 rounded ones on the long faces... I'd lose five or six of them (four from the half rounds and two from the shallow rounds) - unless you are doing very fine work (approaching jewelling) I really can't see a need for such small gradations in size. I'd also take out two of the triangles. What to put in instead? Tough, but a half-hexagon is useful as for others... keep thinking. Can you have dishing done economically? Good decision to remove the rectangle, only one use and it could often be done by a vice. All in all, pretty good; please keep us posted with your decisions.

Hello Beth, still scheduled for the middle of the month; I'll take the pattern back in a fortnight & they'll cast when there's a gap twixt big jobs.

You’re welcome fluidsteel (don’t know your name). Not sure you need to prove the strength of a tool steel block, I think it’s a given. Depressions are always useful, if you can have them milled economically, go for it; remember, you can form – to a degree – small spoons / ladles in big depressions. Maybe consider upsetting holes too – useful for small stock. Metal stand is John’s design and very well made too. Dave, the shell, the rose and the star are just details that were often included on the handles of old hearth tools; sometimes on the very end of a handle (as in the base if it were a cylinder) and sometimes the upper face of a flat ended handle.

Hello, Take a look at the block I designed - in the UK Blacksmiths' Guild section. I back up what has already been said with regard to avoiding sharp edges. My blocks are cast, but there are a few features you can have cut and will probably find useful: 1) the long curve 'swoosh' with a changing radius along its length (draw a couple of lines across the radius you want, then work from both sides); 2) the step on a corner, this is for making raised edges on shovels, pots etc.; 3) the differently angled 'V' recesses, two such will give you six angles to work with; 4) differently radiused outside corners. Plus, maybe, funnel forming cones if the cutter can do it? Can't see the point in heat treatment unless you want to work with cold metal (I may have missed a mention of this but I don't think so). If you are only working with hot iron or soft metals it seems an unnecessary cost and a risk to hammer faces. A potentially good tool, I look forward to seeing some pic's of the final result. Regards, G.

Well, to round this thread off... the earliest definite record of what we would recognise as a treadlehammer that I have managed to find has remained in the 1880s. I followed a couple of supposed 'early' leads here in the UK, both turned out to be trip hammers. Another couple of similar leads over in Europe were also trip hammers; so it seems that the treadle hammer is a pretty new invention. I'd be happy to have the date pushed back if anyone can supply definite information.

Mouse-hounds.

Hi, I used a similar small hearth for a few years so am very familiar with your problem, in fact will be selling mine soon... First, you don't need to raise the bed of the hearth; a layer of old coke will form under it and your clinker will be easier to remove from this. A sheet of cast iron or silica fire retardant under the area around the tue will extend the life of the hearth. You need to fill the whole hearth with coke, if it has been out of the sack for a while it will be have dried a bit and be a little easier to light. Bank up the coke in an arc around the tue's hole, put some of your charcoal in this and get it burning. Once the charcoal is going well put some coke on it and keep going with the crank at a steady pace; when the first coke is alight put some more on top and keep going until you have a dense ball of fire of maybe five or six inches in diameter. As the others have written, a coke fire can go out pretty quickly if there is no air going into it. That said, if it is at a good heat you have plenty of time to forge and brush off your work before going back and cranking. Nonetheless, your anvil should be no more than a step away. Many of these hearths are pretty low, so I advise putting it on blocks / bricks to make it comfortable to crank; otherwise you are going to have an aching back by the end of the day. Where are you in the UK, I'm in Hertfordshire, if you want help or advice there are probably members of the Blacksmiths' Guild near by. Cheers, G.

Peter, If you have access to a tire hammer (or striker) you don't need to search for a spindle, just draw down some large stock - 1/2" bigger than your hardy hole - and make a small cone for use on your anvil. Some smiths like a cone that lies parallel to the anvil face but an inch or so above it, that angle allowing for easier striking; I have used one of these but found it difficult to turn the tool at the end of the socket. I use a vertical one, however I'm considering making one at a 30 or 45 degree angle to allow convenient striking and easy tool turning.

Update… Blocks will start to be cast again from mid-August and I am pleased to write that they will be cast at the original foundry. This will allow me to keep the cost down and should ensure that the quality of future blocks matches those already cast. I do regret this delay; however, with quality and cost being key considerations I believe that this foundry’s work is worth the wait. Regards to all, G

Hello Peter, One of those I made in mild steel started as 3/4" (18mm). Upset the end of the bar and forge a round end, slightly flattened to give a rough circle; leave 1/2" to 3/4" inch for the neck. Decide how long you want the socket (maybe 3 to 4 inches) and cut off a bit more. Upset the base of the socket into itself and draw the bar below the neck part down to met that upset. Flatten it out and roll it over. The advantage of leaving the clear neck then becomes obvious, you can grade the cutting head into the socket avoiding an potential weak-spot. In re' head shape, hmm... I used a modern three-sided tool for a day and (having previously used old-style round ones) found it had the habits of 1) digging into the wood under the bark, and 2) cutting into the bark being lifted, meaning several long, thin pieces of bark rather than one wider piece. Not a problem for a small job, but very irritating if you are barking a large tree or trees. Not surprisingly, the people who did it for a living found the answer to these problems... round heads and in a number of sizes. One thing I have noted about the old tools I have seen: some have a double bevel and some just a single bevel. I have tried both and found an obtuse, 'blunt' double bevel best once it has worn to a very smooth, round edge - smoothness, a polished edge, is thought important by others too. Hope this helps, ask if you want more info'. G.

I have made a few of these (I do a bit of green-woodworking) for friends and have used both mild steel and tool steel, all had the spear type socket. Your stock is pretty big, how big do you want to make it? See my pic. title for dimensions of that one. (An old one, not made by me) The ones I have seen with the heads all round and of different diameters, ranging from 3/4" up to 2" - they were used to take the bark off the whole tree right down to pretty small twigs, money was money and tanners bought oak bark by weight / cord. There are several old texts that mention the techniques used, but the bark on the main trunk seems to have always been started with an axe. Once opened it unzips easily with the barking iron. As far as I know, mild steel ones that have been used for several years are still fine with no twisting or damage to the necks. Obviously a tool steel will keep a good edge for longer. Barking iron L 20cm, 42mm diameter head, 35mm socket.bmp

A brief update... am still unable to achieve the desired features on more than two sides. Have tried using lead as a back (as in John's suggestion) without much success. (Obviously my skills are no on a par with his) Also tried the very slow method of incising each grain while the iron is in a vice on the vertical, moving up a grain at a time. This was less unsuccessful but still not much good. Am considering a shaped recess to hold the correctly forged two faces while I work on the last two. Am waiting for a couple of small burrs to allow me to grind out the correct shape. My 'two sides' have all been pretty uniform (until the opposites are attempted) so, if I allow room for the grains to sit without touching the bottom of each hollow, I hope they will not deform.

Interesting to read that respected professionals such as yourselves have made the same mistakes as me (an unrespected amateur) regarding hot air first and steam later coming up a tube. I did learn after these lessons & only made each mistake once. Blackersmith... I had that slow-motion thought sequence too, but - possibly even more stupidly - it came a couple of minutes after a hot air blast to the wrist. Who would have thought that steam would do the same thing? And I laugh at Homer Simpson's stupidity...

Most of our photo's are now digitial so the external hard drive would be important - an awful lot of smithing download and designs are on it too. I am not religious, but I have a family bible more than three hundred years old with lots of names and dates in it, it would be the first book I tried to save. We had a fire in out-buildings when I was a child, it was a near thing but the house didn't catch fire. Since then I have often thought about precautions. The one I have made, with regard to books, is to have emailed a pic' of my library to myself. On that subject... we were advised by a friend in the insurance business to walk around the place with a video camera and leave a copy of the movie with a friend; it guarantees no disputes if you have to make a claim.

Thanks once again John. I'll be very happy with something looking like your last pic'. I hope to have a go on Wednesday or Thursday - work etc. allowing, if not it will be Saturday. Thinking on what you, and Dave, have written... I'm minded to try another method too. I think for this way I'll start with pretty deep cuts down the central lines and I'll leave the necking at the bottom of the ear until last. That will enable me to put a fair sized lump of metal between vice jaws and - working with progressive heats from the top down - use a butcher like chisel to cut and, hopefully, open out each grain at the same time. Once I get to the bottom I'll put a neck on it and draw down the stem. Fun, as you say, but I suspect a fair amount of frustration too before I'm done!

I have an old tire-roller (makes big circles) that came from a local forge. The smith died a few years ago and his tools all jusy stayed where they were until last year when the family finally sorted out how all the money would be split. I've only used it twice so far - it'll get more use when I have moved - once to make a large ceiling mounted candle-holder ring (a sort of middle-ages-chandelier) for a friend and once to make a 'toy hoop' for a cousin's daughter. But... although he used it for decorative gate and fence work, he told me how his father had used it for the old wagon and cart tires. I remember it being used when I was a child thirty years ago, long before I was interested in smithing and I loved it, still do. It's staying, end of story. I got a lot of scroll formers at the same time, which I have used maybe three times, I'll give some of them away as and when I come across someone in need who I think will make the most of them.

Thanks John, that is exactly what I have in mind, but with all four faces worked if possible. I shall try once more this week. Thanks again.

Thanks for that Jeremy; good stuff but, sadly, not what I mean - these look 2D not 3D. I've only seen what I am trying to do once before, at a county show a few years ago, no camera on my 'phone then and I don't know who the smith was. But... John B has seen it and done it, I'm waiting on him for a pic' to be posted. When it is you'll see it's realistic rather than impressionistic. I hope my own final efforts will be as good and will post pic's if I triumph.