GNJC

Hello, Spot on John, it is the six-face complexity that pushes up the cost. I was, initially, reluctant to make a block that was on the large side; however, I am coming round to the idea. Beth, following something you wrote earlier I did look into the option of several smaller tools, not ecomomic sadly. At the moment John's looks like the best suggestion. But I will try some other foundries for prices too; Beth please PM me with the names of any foundries you think highly of. There is also another possibility in the works, but I'll save that until I have more info... G.

Right, the situation so far… (apologies for a long post) Have learnt a lot, 1st lesson = don’t believe everything foundries initially tell you. The reality is that for something complex like this a successful pattern will need to be made by someone who really knows what he’s doing i.e. a pro’. So probable cost of a pattern has gone up (from a few hundreds to up to a thousand pounds, ha!); no matter, within reason I’ll still fork out with regard to that. Also, since it takes a lot longer to prepare for each casting, complexity of pattern also increases cost. Fair enough, but that is not a cost I will cover. So, how can cost be kept down but still leave us with a block worth having? No doubt there are many options, most obviously: 1 Reduce complexity of the block’s design; 2 Reduce size of the block; 3 Finish blocks ourselves (a bit of grinding and sanding). 3 is a given; but numbers 1 & 2 are linked and could reduce a block’s utility. Any other ideas? (size will have least effect on cost because material is cheap.) The Current plan is a standard rectangular block with all faces utilised, containing (in inches): LADLE CIRCLES = 5 shallow; 4, 3 & 2 hemispheres. SPOON OVOIDS = 4.5x3; 4x2.5; 3.75x2.5; 3.5x2.5; 3x2; 2.75x1.75 & 2x1.5. SHOVEL 4x3.25 – looks alright to fit in at the moment. (Anywhere with space could have small varying sized hemispherical recesses for heading / upsetting if cost allows.) SO… is that too much, not enough or just right? My preference, if necessary, would be to lose smaller sizes and the shovel rather than large sizes (sorry Colleen.) I have contacted / will contact a few more foundries further afield to see if they prove more economical; once they get back to me I’ll post again about cost. Lastly, apologies to a well-known swage block website, no offence intended when I posted a link to your excellent site earlier. G.

Hmm... true to a point. There was at least one old-time American silversmith, Paul Revere! But seriously, if you look at many old British blocks (say, before the late Nineteenth Century) you will see depressions that were used for making ladles and, very occasionally, spoon shaped ones too. Tinkers did not make many spoons here, the poor would have used spoons of horn or wood depending upon suitability and teh availability of materials. The middle classes would have used pewter and the wealthy silver. I am by no means an expert in this field, but my guess for the reason for a much larger number of such blocks in America (later to become the USA) is, first of all, the ban on manufacture in the American Colonies and then, secondly, that you have given. Over here there were – post Industrial Revolution – so many cutlery manufacturers that a general blacksmith simply could not have competed on price. I am playing around with google sketch and something called 3Dvia; both are freeware. Regards, G.

Hi Dave, As I wrote to Colleen, I am trying to fit in a shovel pattern (and the ability to make crusie lamps too), two seem unlikely, but spoons and ladles are the priority. If, when I present my initial design, there is no concensus amongst us or approval from the chosen foundry it will mean me going back to the drawing board. At the moment, between a toodler and sick wife, the 'fun' of designing in 3D using a 2D graphics program is a rest. I am seriously considering getting a 3D program! Regards, G.

Hello Glenn, The Yater blocks are real classics, but bigger than what I'm planning. If cost was not an issue I probably would be considering two complimentary blocks. The thing that I like most about them is that they are good for a lot of uses but they don't try to do too much at the risk of making a block that could easily be broken. Regards, G.

Colleen, Thanks for the dimensions, I shall start playing around with locations. I'll try and fit in two sizes, but - and I have to think in 3D, i.e. how close depressions are to others on other faces - if that is too hard I shall use a size somewhere between the two you have given. I think that anyone used to hammering will be fine with another shape in the midst of the shovel depression (a plug could be made if there was a real problem, but I doubt there will be). The perfect swage block... it can't exist! However, I only intend to do this once so I want this block to be very strong and for that reason I have decided that the depressions should - as far as possible - be no closer than an inch to one another or to an edge. Some will say that we could have more shapes if they were closer; true, but a stray blow to a flat will do little harm, whereas a blow to a ridge separating hollows (or a hollow from an edge) could do real damage. The block can’t get bigger than 10”x7”x5” for reasons of cost and convenient weight, so surface space will be used very carefully Side shapes, hmm, I have never cast anything before so am unsure at the moment. On Friday I sent some images for foundries to get an idea what is planned and to be able to answer that question. Simply, if it is a big price increaser, it won’t happen unless there is a general agreement that it should. My limited understanding of the casting process tells me that since there will be no through-holes, only depressions, it should not be too much of a problem. But remember, I am currently very ignorant about this sort of thing. Thanks for that Mick, the more the better, that’s six of us now, so I think it is going to happen, which is a good thing. Whereabouts are you? I’m to the West of Hemel Hempstead. Regards, G.

Colleen, I've no objection to including them and it will increase the utility of the block. What sort of sizes would you want the shovel depressions to be L x W x D approx.? Presumably two would be enough. I have an idea to incorporate them... they could be fitted in but, to make the most of the space available, would probably need to have other shapes within them (not too large). I think that as long as this 'inner' shape is well away from the edge of a shovel depression - in the middle of its flat part - it would not effect any shovel being forged since there is no need to 'shape' the central flat part other than to keep it flat on the anvil's face. What do you think? G.

Hello all, Right, I have been in contact with half a dozen assorted foundries and CNC machine shops. (Sandawana is one of them Al, but thanks for that.) Casting is the most economic option, even for just one and that is including a pattern. As I wrote above, I will subsidise the pattern making. A rough unit cost should be about £100 a piece (not including delivery to you). I am yet to finalise a design so that price could come down depending upon size and design. With regard to design, the closest I have seen to what I want are the Greenwood blocks shown in the gallery at Link removed at the request of Anvilfire.. But they are not perfect (what is?), and assuming it will keep costs down the edges could be left blank. Anyone interested? G. Phil: I’ve looked at the two-block option; it has no price benefit here with the chaps I’ve spoken to, but you are quite right in re’ sprues etc.

Hmm, I'm not trying to push these blocks, just looking for an easy / economical way of getting one that will do what I want and, if possible, help out a few other people too. The CNC option is possible, if only for a pattern; I have a friend who can do the CAD bit. I must admit I have not contacted any local firms about prices, but I suspect that it is not going to be cheap. It still amazes me that there is not one for sale over here, esoteric maybe, but still in demand. G.

Just seen your post Dave, very encouraging. I, too, have been dishing over swage block holes and improvised stakes, not ideal. Are there any special shapes you would want and where in the UK are you? G.

Hi, Beth, for a one (or two) off I agree with you that forging or - with access to the right machinery - machining is the way to go. But it is not easy to do well and I'm sure that there are others who would want one. If the quotes I get aren't too much I may even get just a couple done. If you aren't so keen on the casting plan, fair enough my misunderstanding. By the way, for anyone interested, for a Salt Fork block to get here in thr UK from the US would mean an all in cost of £250+ depending on courier (the cheapest I've found is DHL at just under £150). With regard to that figure, and looking at the cheapest swage block (not for spoons etc. though) from Vaughans - 9"x9"x3" - at £166+VAT+shipping, if the price can be kept low enough I think it is no-brainer! G.

Hello Thomas, Yes I have seen those blocks, they are good and the work necessay to use them is not a problem... but, despite the very reasonable price, the cost of getting one here (65lbs = ~30kgs to the UK) and the duty/tax payable makes it expensive. A friend who is in the airline business may bring me one from the US sometime, if I am lucky. G.

Hello all, Considering the cost of getting decent 'custom' swage blocks from the US (I have been unable to find any here in the UK), I have decided to look at the option of designing and having one cast for myself. Obviously, costs come down with numbers, so is anyone else interested? I have discussed this with Beth and she is keen, so that's two of us (I'll have two myself, so that's three blocks so far). My main interest is making old cooking kit so the block will have both circular and ovoid / spoon shaped cuts. Any other reasonable suggestions as to other shapes that could be cast into it are welcome. I will make the pattern, or have it made if designs are beyond me. As a guess it would be something like 9"x5"x4", give or take an inch in each dimension according to need. Ductile iron seems the obvious choice of material, but I am happy to be advised of a better choice (keeping in mind both utility and cost). This would be entirely not-for-profit, and once a critical mass is attained it would be a case dividing the overall cost by the number interested and then of sending payment in and getting the casting done. Having written that, I am prepared to subsidise the pattern making if it proves necessary. I am a lawyer (or was) and am happy to provide fully refundable receipts etc. as a guarantee of getting the blocks; Payment would only be required once everything is ready - but I will not accept promises before the casting, if you want one you'll have to pay up front. Well, there it is, I am awaiting some rough costings and will post them as and when I get them. Hope to hear from someone soon, please post on this thread rather than PM me - I want everyone to be aware of ideas and progress. Thanks in advance fo any help or advice offered, G.

A very good series showing a number of crafts. It was very popular when it was first shown here in the UK, it got good ratings, it drew attention to and increased interest in the crafts too. The obvious step was to make a second series (not sure if this was to be with the same crafts again or new ones) and this was planned... and then cancelled. Typical. G.

Hello, have emailed you the seller's info and pic's of the hammer.

Hello to all, A forge down the road from me - SW Herts - has a lot of stuff for sale. The smith died a few years ago and the family are selling the property. A lot of the small stuff has, unsurprisingly, become a bit rusty but is still recoverable. However, the reason for this post is the big kit. Some local 'Scrap Dealers' (we all know the type) have made a stupid offer, I am posting this to give some legitimate person the chance to buy. There are drills, a fly press and folding machines a decent anvil (but bick is worn at the end) and ... a Three hundred weight Massey power hammer - I've not had it working but it looks fine and there are a number of accessories to go with it. Well, there it is, if this is in the wrong place sorry to Glenn but I want as many to see this as possible, I have a horrible feeling that the family would rather scrap the stuff than be ripped off. It is just too big for me. Any interested parties please p.m. me; a reply may take time because my 'phone and internet are down at home and will be for a week or so (BT!). Cheers, G.

Hi, I recently restored a spit engine (am still to finish the flywheel - new baby, no sleep!). If you need any close-up photo's of various parts, ratchet etc., let me know and I'll post some as and when I can. I have studied these things a lot, and there seems to be two common forms of ratchet; the first is a mechanism contained inside the main rope-winding barrel, the second is outside the barrel, but within the main cog-wheel attached to the barrel. G.

Hello Sam, Yes, could saw it from plate, but want to make it the original way. I just need time and practice (as with everything!). G.

Hello, I have yet to get a chance to try again, work and a very pregnant wife (baby preparation!) are taking up nearly all of my time. Some time ago, somewhere on IFI, I have posted scans of Moxon's book showing his full instructions for making a spit engine / clock jack. The fly-wheel is covered in only a paragraph, stating that the number and length of arms controls the speed of turning. Having examined several fly-wheels - dating from the late seventeenth to early nineteenth centuries - none showed visible signs of welding, hence my wanting to split and forge it. Sadly I think an earlier post hit the nail on the head, I need to spend a great deal more time working on it. I'll post a picture when I finally get it right! Regards, G.

Hi Matt, A jig is fine for arm allignment, I used that after my first few attempts with just a hammer and anvil. But it only worked for first one angle and then it's opposite; once I started on the adjacent (diagonally opposite) arm, the corners near the centre 'shifted'. Whereas with a normal right-angle my corners are sharp and crisp, the result of this shifting/offsetting is a rounded corner. That, in itself, is not a problem, but not having the arms properly opposite one-another is. Having now got hold of a working camera, the two pic's below should demonstrate the problem; in the centre of the wheel is a piece of tube formed to fit on the worms square vertical shaft. Regards, G.

Hi, Thanks for replies; ThomasPowers, I agree that a lot of the kitchen stuff made was pretty rough, but this flywheel is to sit on top of the spit engine's worm and act as a regulator; it really needs to be well balanced to prevent an eccentric rotation. The attached photo' shows an ideal finished article. Getting a hole of the correct size in the middle is no problem for me, the problem lies in getting the cross with 4 x symmetry. My camera is not working at the moment, when my wife get's back I'll post my latest poor effort to show the 'offset' problem. G.

Hello all, I am having trouble making a flywheel for a spit engine (clock jack in the US). The design is a simple cross with squared hole in the centre; but, I only want to use methods and tools available to a smith pre-1780; so no modern cutting or welding techniques. I have made many pieces of work where an accurate and crisp right-angle was needed inside and out, no problem. But now I have to accurately form four opposing right-angles. Having split my flat stock (1/4"x3/4") at both ends and opened it to a cross shape, when I try to forge the centre and get accurate right-angles, each time one is done correctly the forging of the others 'offsets' the recently completed good one. Having now made many attempts, and an equal number of failures, I thought I'd ask for advice on impoving my forging (before resorting to oversizing and a ridiculous amount of filing!). All help gratefully received. G.

Hello, I have an interest in spit engines too, building and / or restoring. It would be interesting to see any others you come across; spit engines vary in design more than most people think. How about posting a few pic's of the engine you are installing? Cheers, G.

Hi, I have used silica gel to stop leaks before; the stuff that comes in small white packets with electrical goods to keep them properly dry. You can also buy it from photographic supply shops. Get it out of the bag, and if it is in large granules grind it to about the same size as table salt. Then hold it in your hand very tightly (if the barrel is full) and rub it in to the leaking area; it expands VERY quickly as it hydrates and so your leak is stopped! I have also heard of this being done with corn starch and plaster of paris, but I have no experience of using these substances for that purpose. G.

Hello, I had problems getting coke to burn when I started out. I'm in Hertfordshire and use the locally available K. G. Smith 'Forge Breeze'; no complaints with coke at all. But... the stuff I get comes in 20kg plastic sacks, very strong, but these keep the coke damp (which in my experience is invariably how it is packed). Having tried all sorts of ways to make starting my fire easier I now leave the coke out to dry in one of those wide-low flexible plastic buckets that you can buy in DIY shops. After a few days drying out it fires up pretty readily when placed on burning charcoal. So, 1) use dry coke & 2) put it on burning charcoal. Keep trying. G.