jake pogrebinsky

George,try this:http://www.lashistoria.se/Web/Core/Pages/Error.aspx?aspxerrorpath=/templates/AACms_LockHistDefault.aspx If it doesn't work,then i'm sorry,but it's an exellent resourse,when it's "up" There's something here,too,forgot where...

Wow,Minotaur,that is an impressive research that you've conducted...Thank you. Thanks all of you gents,yet again.This here issue feels incredibly GERMAINE,both to a structural smith,as well as a bladesmith. I need to track down a printer,so as i could stare at all of this from time to time.:o

Sir: To the best of MY knowledge,welding(electrode or diffusion(forge)) non-ferrous to iron/steel is VERY difficult(though not impossible).Commonly,these methods of joining those are used: Brazing.Usually,gas torch,+brass rod. Soldering.Tin-lead or silver based solder+flux,also usually using a gas torch. Inlay.Inserting of the non-ferrous into the prepared recess,usually using some form of mechanical locking method such as a "dovetail". Hope that the above might at least help you to search further.Best of luck,Jake

Ah,so...And here,i b'lieve,we have the usual situation with metallurgy,where the theory and practice do not quite meet. One of the things i really appreciate about this site and similar is that it allows the meeting of both,the metalworkers from the forge and the industry,with their experience and therefore the UNDERSTANDING of metal,and those from the academia and the lab and such,bringing the KNOWLEDGE. Just the stuff to be a good Buddhist blacksmith-monk!Even all sorts of help in humbling one,very cool. By reading from many an obscure source,i seem to gather this:The permanent patterning of dislocations does take place,affecting the nucleation accordingly. In ancient times,apparently,the smiths knew that,empirically,and used it deliberately.That fairly recent blip about a nano-tube-like structures found in a fragment of a 15th cent.German sword apparently had to do with this very deal.Changing the mechanical properties of given steel by deliberately manipulating the dislocations,and the formation of the crystallites also,for yet more effect. Wow,there's just no end to the fun that one can have with Fe!!!:D

Thank you,Phil. Grant,i've read and re-read what you and Minotaur wrote.You seem to be saying that the dislocation become linear,with rolling.And stay that way,irregardless of the subsequent TO. The nucleation follows those lines,thus the grain.Seems like Phil concurs(macro,as in on the level of visible grains,correct?X100-200,or so?). Sam,thanks,but i'm afraid that illustration is of a composite of some dissimilar alloys.My poor pea-brain is overheating trying to wrap itself around just the mild...

Mark,thank you,of course,but i must differ.And no modesty involved here,false or otherwise.I'm a ruthlessly judgmental person,towards myself,and (regretably)others. The "talent"(what,really is THAT?)that you see is: (A)Stupidity,as in ultimate impracticality.I'd not scruple to handhammer the most ridiculouly challenging joinery.Not knowing jack,nor having the patience to learn systematically,it ends up a mess.A forged MESS looks good,it just does,that's the"handforged"deal that attracts so many.(For a good reason,it's just that handforged does not equal incompetent.The two are tough to tell apart). (B)Poverty.I exist in a state that you'd be hardpressed to equal in any 3rd world country.It results for one in not having any stock steel.I'd "bump the factory look off",anyhow,but having to make your stock irregularises your work like not much else. I'm not sure where you've seen my junk.My main public portfolio is on picasa deal,that is what the client sees.Almost everything labeled "sold" there is a lie.If i ever sell stuff,99% sells for under what it takes to produce.I work primarily according to my own demented taste,since i've nothing to loose.That also creates a certain "look",again not much to be proud of. ©The Old World look.It comes naturally,having been raised in Europe,but in my execution is only the patina,if you will.The traditional QUALITY of joinery that comes as a result of MANY years training and repetition is not mine,alas.In that very tradition there's not much that is more despicable than aping the look,the veneer,without the underlying guts.It's just how it is. Now,to demonstrate that i'm not just clinically down on myself,i'll say that the thing that i do have,and am very proud of,is the PASSION for iron junk.And that is the sum total of my assets.Howeverall of the above adds up to an ILLUSION of qualty,not the genuine article.It's a facsimile.The craft of an illusionist is different from that of an architectural smith. To balance this,a short story:A man(himselfvery competent smith),critiquing my work once said:"Your problem is that you attempt some very difficult moves,but make them look simple.That's why you're broke.You need to do the opposite".By an example of that opposite i'd take a rope-twist,say.It invariably will impress a layman-"How did you do that?!!!".I thanked that man,and resolved to do the exact opposite.His advice,(extremely well and kindly meant)turned my gut.I try to avoid the rope-twist nowadays,though i like it a lot... Upon more careful examination you'll see much on this site that is WAY better.it's a complex subject,judging ironwork,and i've already inexcusably imposed on Mr.Newman's thread here. I'd be willing to resume this elsewhere,if it would be useful,or educational in a negative sort of way.And yes,the negative example can be quite valid. Most sincerely,Jake

Thanks yet again.Appreciate that,really do.

I've tried to edit an unclear post,and as a result created two,both confusing!Well then,"in for a penny...". Very recently,i've struggled with a seemingly simple task:A half-dozen pintles,thesort that are driven into a timber,3/8" dia.post+a pointy spike a a 90 to it-basic. Turned out not quite that simple.At first i've tried to jump-weld the post.Testing it,i realised that heading the weld afterwards to finish stresses it...I didn't like that,the order is going far away,and to have one come unglued at some later date...Ug. I then thought to weld a rivet through the punched hole.I wasn't impressed with that,either.The edges of the rivet-head have welded,but again,the header forces put stress on the connection inside the hole. I thought of making a bolt-head weld,leaving a long tail on one side,to then be drawn to a spike-point,but by then my confidence in a welded 90 degree connection was waning.The visions of some complex wagon hardware skew-welds,from Richardson, were too confusing... (i've ended up forging an upset at the bend,and heading that.) Forgive if that is not directly related to the directionality in mild...At least a part of it was,to me,at the time.I suppose that i'm trying to demonstrate some attempt at applying all this,vs the endless theory. All the best,Jake

Thank you very much,Grant.If i may further be a nuisance,can i then ask this: The grains of rolled 1020 HR(say)are forming upon the material cooling,as it's rolled.So the bonds that they form are stronger in the direction of the physical forces exerted on them,vs across the rolled bar?Is that a function of the timing of the rolling relative heating/cooling? And,then,is it done deliberately,as engineered for a specific qualities? I'm not just idly curious,but honestly puzzled...As a dummy wielding a hammer,i "sense"that some directionality is there.But i do question that intuitive sense,as often,in the informed metallurgy environment,it doesn't hold up.

Thank you,Grant.May i ask,then,what causes that?Are not the grains,themselves composed of atoms solidified as the steel cools,re-formed anew,relative to their cooling rates? I do apologise if there's a key element of the process that i'm missing...I simply am not a natural at understanding(attempting to,rather),of Fe metallurgy.It's an unending-seeming struggle to wrap the old pea-brain around even the basics.

Very neat,very stout. A question for Forgemaster,if i may:In what sense do you mean "grain"?Was it wrouht-like,with inclusions,or does the homogenous mild(albeit minus C and all the aus.-fun&games)not re-structure itself through thermo-cycling? Sincerely,Jake.

You get a cruel & degrading minimum-wage job and buy one!Wait,no... OK,you forge a chisel,and you raise a bunch of chisel marks on a piece of iron/steel,in a pattern of your choice(the more random,the smoother the cut will be). Then you pack it in a clay muffle(box),full of carbonaceous stuff of your choice-charcoal dust,rawhide,hooves,et c.By heating the whole mess at a proper(fairly high),temp,you achieve cementation,to whatever depth that you had the patience to take it to. (The reason that you can't just use steel and heat-treat it normally is that the little pointy cutter teeth that make your file a file,will scale off.Unless you have a nice bottle of argon and can flood your forge environment and keep it plumb full while austenising.But if you have all that,surely there must be a file around as well...) So,rewind back a millenium or so again.When it absorbs enough C you yank it out and quench it VERY quickly!And voila-you have a file!Exept,of course,the quench medium must be the urine of a red-headed boy,or of a white goat fed strictly on pure ferns,and don't forget the lunar cycles,either! And now that you know all these terrible arcana,may i ask why would you want to make a file? Cheers,Jake

Beg pardon,gents-isn't the whole point getting lost here-i thought this site is to compare notes on forging... Frustration is,alas,a part of learning any skill.One would think that the point is to overcome the challenge by means of forging,vs buying stuff.It's illogical to advise the one struggling with the fundamentals to skip over the essentials,that'll not benefit anyone. Tongs can be built out of very light stock(3/8"),to function by springiness. Heavier,say 1/2" stock,is already approaching store-boughten,"real"tongs.Can you not draw down 1/2"?Why?That,i think,is more to the point. Stock can be left long,so that one side(of tongs) can be forged on the end,the other on the opposite.The drawing can then proceed without cutting the halves apart till virtually the very end. I think that the tongs is an important skill/logical sequence to work through,before moving on.Many simplistic forgings may be satisfying in a deceptive way,by not imparting any valuable skill advance.You'd rob the developement of your intuitive hand/eye coordinating capacity by buying tongs,and for the sake of what? Respectfully,Jake

Hi,Grant.A number of interesting metalworking skills involved here,i'm not sure that i can identify all.That bottom panel with the intertwined pattern almost looks EPDM-ish(?). IF it's,indeed,"artsy"(i've not much use for the term or concept,way ambiguous),then you come to it from the only right direction:Skill first,then "art". Everything about this frame hollers "competence" to me,both how the partsare made,and how they're joined.Very impressed,and wistful for this kind of skill level. The idea of framing with steel is an interesting one,heck of a lot of unexplored potential. I've talked with a German smith a few years back,who played with it some,neat stuff.He originally came to the technology through custom window-casement work.(Much replacing of very inefficient glass in Europe,most of which is very oddly sized,has to be custom). Your wife's picture is also very interesting:Are those guys just forging,or is there some bloomery stuff going on,too? Respectfully,Jake

I've only just moved out of a tent,after many years,and temperatures down to -65F.That is,a standard,white canvas(11oz)wall-tent,12by14 nominal.These come with either a 3' or 4' side-walls,so a frame,and one run of plywood around the base is in order. It worked very well,the light inside is perfect. Don't forget to sweep the snow off the roof before starting work,so that the canvas stays dry,though some icing will sublimate anyhoo. I had an upright drum with a 14"chimney coming out of that to vent the coal forge. Worked corker,best of luck. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AKblacksmiths/photos/album/776510940/pic/386359672/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

Thanks,Matt,it's very generous of you to go into such detail.An effort like this is much appreciated even by those of us that know a little(or hope that they do),about the subject.Very well said,it's quite a struggle to reconcile the science with the backyard/common sense end of things,and your take on it is very helpful. Cheers,Jake

Hang in there,Frosty,old hoss,you won't let that birch get the best of you.The very best wishes to you and Deb.

Matt,Frosty,i'm afraid that i must disagree with some of the above(MOST respectfully.I seem to express meself so poorly in writing that often come off as one intolerant ...,no disrespect ever intended). In my understanding,flat-filing(a very specific action,in machinist's parlance),relies most heavily on our brain's ability to strike a PERFECT plane. To allow the body to do so,one's posture must be unrestricted by anything.The classic stance is very much like some of the basic karate ones:Back straight,feet spread to about shoulder wide,the work positioned exactly at the level of the tip of your elbow. I don't think that it can be achieved sitting down-it'll tend to distort that motion,that(much like a correct hammering),involves ALL the muscle groups,legs/hips included. The file is held by both hands,left one touching the tip,acting as a sending unit for the orientation of the brain. In part,the difficulty results,Matt,from the orientation of the work:The knife is positioned in a level plane,while the surface being filed-is not.The brain tries to correct automatically,thus smearing the transition. That same jig needs to be chucked into something capable of rotation,to situate the surface being filed level(in both axis,as our brain is a gyroscope). Many a cheap machinist vice has that rotary feature.Or a round stock used as a support for the knife can be chucked into the pipe-jaws.Else,one can scrap something together by using an old axle,say,where the work can be clamped to a flat filed on the horizontal shaft,and a C-clamp or vice-grips controlling the rotation. There's a good description of flat-filing in the ubiquitous Mr A.Weygers(but again,he can be quoted in just about every post!). All this in addition to all the very valid info above,not contradiction,and with the utmost respect. The best of luck,Jake. P.S.Draw-filing,i believe,is also something that doesn't work as flat-filing,the physiology doesn't seem to want to do it in reverse.It is great for hogging out,however. P.P.S.Rubbing a welder's soapstone on the file teeth keeps it much cleaner.If the teeth are loading up uncontrollably,then maybe something is not right,too-the pressure is too great,the file is not coarse enough for the softness of material,et c.

Thank you,Dave,for your attempt to clarify this.You write very articularly,but any logic in all of the above still simply eludes me...It must be that i'm way out there socially,as well as economically. If things on the grid are indeed that tough,then please accept my condolences,i do live a charmed lifestyle out here,it seems. Thanks again,and all the best wishes,Jake.

O.K.,Cesare,so you turned the bar into a strap,and tried to weld the entire lengh,eye to tip. Often,it's easier to start the weld at the eye,and continue untill it's time to add the bit(unless the bit extends all the way clear to the eye,forming the front of it,is that the case?Because it changes everything quite a bit). 1"sq.is nice stuff,almost enough to drift.But just about the right gauge for the strap method as well,maybe a touch heavy,which is good. I think i know what you mean-you've left the lips of the scarf on mild so thick that they sheared through the bit...Yep,they should be drawn down to thin edges,but not small enough to burn. Now,from your reference to a "beard",and the extention of the bit downwards,i incur that you were going for the bearded shape by preshaping the bit. In my own struggles with similar shapes i've learned that it does not pay:1)The classy shapes of old axes were come by forging of the welded blank,drawing and peening,not starting out that shape at all.2)All this forging also serves to improve and solidify the weld-large welds on the flat areas are never good enough at first(besides being hard to make,dissipating the heat).Welding chunkier,closer to a sq.section parts is easier,and working them to shape subsequently insures both the form,and the function(solid weld). I've learned the hard way to figure the given process,and to follow it solely,instead of trying to mix the elements of different types of construction.Each method usually ends up to be more complex than meets the eye,it's parts necessary in a way that may not be obvious...Are you going for a specific way/shape/type of an axe?Maybe some research into the whys and wherefores of that specific method may disclose the pitfalls of deviating from the sequence. Just throwing some thoughts out there,and confusing ones,at that.The truth is always found in one's own forge,using that particular chunk of steel,so the best of luck,hope that you'll persevere at this! Regards,Jake

Dave!You have me totally intrigued now!I beg you,tell how can something like that be a luxury?As in making one(?),or the priviledge of producing work under one's mark...(?).I'm not being facetious,i swear-i'm honestly puzzled! Materially speaking,i doubt that you'd ever likely to come across someone as poor as meself-the official poverty level is more money that i've EVER made...I'm practically not a part of the cash economy,right this moment i posess $0,never had a bank account in my whole life,hand to mouth AS IT GETS!(and proud of it),but,i've had my touchmark many years now.Buddy of mine has given me a chunk of D2,no big deal,has been using it for ever...So,you've lost me! Sincerely,Jake

CBrann-I don't know,people are funny that way!(Some of us...).Not too long ago,there was quite a deal when this guy sold two antique chairs to the H.Ford museum in Deering,MI(methinks).They were so happy to get those(very rare)chairs,that a special exibit was organised around them. The guy,who actually made them himself,was dreadfully disappointed that they didn't catch on,and ratted himself out.They would not believe him,and so everyone went back and forth till the guy pointed out the location of the microchip that he built in... Funny psychology,this...Who knows what motivates one!

I agree,all that makes sense.However,than it certainly relegates the responsibility onto the emptor-if it's marked,one needs to try to find out whose mark that is,then. I'm sorry,but i don't quite get that-why/in what way a touchmark is a "luxury"? Respectfully,Jake.

Yes,that's probably true that if/when any fraudulent representation takes place that it's more likely not the craftsman perpetuating it-we,the craftsmen,are too dependent on our reputation,for one thing.(Besides having a set of morals and ethics WAY above an average mortal,naturally!) There's a fairly simple solution to any possible confusion-touchmark.I'm not sure,being remote and largely out of the loop,but it seems that the few "touchmark registry" type devices are not organised or patronised enough.It could really benefit all,if the use of such a deal by smiths was more widespread,and maybe sanctified by some higher authority,like ABANA or an equally prominent creature. And,to use this chance to opine on the related topic:I'm often disappointed* when i come across a topic typically asking where can one have their touchmark machined.Seems like a smith can/should be able to forge one's signature,kinda a matter of pride for me,personally,like forging one's own tongs.Also,a forged touchmark will not be as incongruous on a piece meant to be close period reproduction.Though,of course,an obvious CNC stamp will leave much less doubt as to provenance! *"No appointment-no disappointment!",Aldous Huxley. All the best,Jake

Hmm...Cesare,i'm not sure that i understand.Usually,the mild and/or WI,being softer,get distorted against the harder HC bit,and this sounds like the opposite. Would it be too difficult for you to describe that in more detail,as well as the type/shape of the scarf? And just as an idea,are you absolutely sure of your mild's provenance?Sometimes we all loose track,and mix up the alloys. Beware also of A36,it can contain very hard alloys indeed. For welding especially,the less mystery-the better. Personally,for whatever it's worth,i've had fair success with a V-notch in the axe-head,and a wedge-like bit.Heated together,in position,one can grasp the head with the tongs,and rap the bit in place,effectively setting the weld right in the fire.For all subsequent actions it now becomes one piece. Occasionally it has crossed my tortured mind to forge a set of double tongs,like what was used to steel the plowshare,simultaneously holding the two parts being welded. All the best,Jake