MattBower

I sent the pics to an archaeologist who works in east Tennessee. He says: "Aha! That's the cast iron spike off a lightning rod. We get those a lot on old homesteads."

Could be a plug bayonet. I don't know for sure, but I do know just the guy to ask! Stand by.

Not bad, given the conditions under which it was forged! Now that's determination... Saw your signature. You're probably only about 20 miles away from me, as the crow flies -- but more like 40 by car, thanks to the Potomac.

If you hope to literally find wrought iron, that's a bit of an art and it would help to know where you are in the country. Essentially you look for stuff that's made of iron/steel and 100+ years old. Depending where you live, you could find it just about anywhere. (A coworker of mine dug 100+ pounds of wrought iron farm equipment out of his yard last year. I still can't persuade him to sell me any of it. He just thinks it's cool. And it is. But I could forge it into something even cooler!) If you want to buy it, there are folks who sell the antique stuff. Here are a couple: http://www.wisconsinwoodchuck.net/treasures.htm http://elliscustomknifeworks.hightemptools.com/wroughtiron.html Frequent the bladesmithing forums and you'll find more sources. Bladesmiths love wrought iron. Edit: Do not order from the U.K. Had an exchange recently with someone who did that for a paid job. It was extremely expensive. Wrought iron is not that hard to find in this country. It just takes a little patience, and a little practice.

I'd be a little hesitant about using O1, but any of the rest of those would be great choices. (I'm sure the O1 worked; there's just a higher inherent chance of brittleness problems in a steel with that much carbon.) Of course 1040/1045/1060 are more economical and simpler to heat treat than high alloy stuff.

Is there any steel in this thing, or is it just plain wrought iron? If it's pure, low-carbon wrought, it's not really going to respond to quench hardening. I'm certain you could work harden the edge, but that's not something I've done. Maybe one of our reenactors/hardcore history buffs can help with that. However, it's not uncommon to encounter wrought with enough carbon in it to harden noticeably in a fast quench. If you have a leftover piece of the same wheel, I'd try heating it to a dull red, then letting it air cool. Test it with a file to see how resistant it is to filing. Then heat your test piece to around 1600 F and quench in light oil, followed by a file check. Repeat with water, then brine, with file checks after each of them. If any of those quenchants increases hardness noticeably, then it might be worth quenching your blade. As to whether you should temper afterward, that'd be a guessing game. It'd depend how much the thing hardened in the first place.

From your description it was likely air hardening, which would explain why it didn't like the quench.

Are any of you lads east of the Pond familiar with Blundell files? English company. Wondering if a used set of their needle files would be worth my time and money. Are they in the same league as Nicholson, at least?

Thanks, ric, that'd be very cool to know. I have some hammer sized wrought that I've never played with, because I didn't like any of the ideas I had for holding the face in place for welding.

Like others, I think it'd be helpful if you pointed to some examples of the problem you're talking about. Because I honestly don't think there's a big problem with that, at least in instances that don't involve safety. Now, if you're going to point to threads where the expressed concern was safety, you ought to be willing to explain why responsible members here should disregard the safety of newbies. Or you ought to at least be able to point to some evidence that there wasn't really some kind of safety concern.

A question about the Japanese vids. In this one, how on earth did he keep the face on when he heated it for welding? http://web.mac.com/nami_aru/Daiku/Genno.html

Thanks very much, Ric. There were at least a dozen things I noticed in that vid that made me say, "wow" or "cool." Not least of them being the efficiency and power with which he wielded his hammer -- at the age of 90! I wonder how many sets he had to make before he no longer found himself saying, "ah, dang, I made that left-handed!" and the like.

Thanks very much, Ric. There were at least a dozen things I noticed in that vid that made me say, "wow" or "cool." Not least of them being the efficiency and power with which he wielded his hammer -- at the age of 90! I wonder how many sets he had to make before he no longer found himself saying, "ah, dang, I made that left-handed!" and the like.

I've never seen anyone here discourage a newbie from trying to make a knife. (I've seen people tell newbies they were making mistakes in making knives, or that they'd be well served to do a little more reading and research on a particular topic in knifemaking.) I have seen people discourage newbies from trying to do dangerous things -- such as making swords. Your view seems to be that since there's some danger in all forging, the dangers are all the same and even rank beginners should be encouraged to undertake the riskiest and most dangerous projects. But the notion that the dangers are all the same is simply wrong. Piloting a wheeled vehicle is dangerous, too. Does that mean it's "horrible" of me to discourage my six year-old from driving the car at the same time I encourage him to ride his bike down in the park? The two are similar in some respects, but one is vastly more dangerous and requires far, far more training and experience. The fact that I try to keep him from driving the car doesn't mean I'm discouraging him from driving altogether. There's nothing "horrible" about making an educated judgment that some activities should be preceded by a sufficient amount of training and experience. And so Colonel Hrisoulas, Thomas, etc., are advising a little caution to someone who they think may not be ready for swordmaking. No one has told him not to forge, or not to make knives. Now, I personally have never made a sword. But I have enough respect for people like Thomas and Colonel Hrisoulas to listen to their advice. You apparently don't. Which is funny, because you're "a few years" into your schooling and they have something approaching 80 years of combined experience behind them.

I certainly understand wanting to save this one, but I have to point out that this is one of the problems with using mystery steel. Long, slow anneals like you did are actually counterproductive with some steels, and of course if it's air hardening things are even worse

Try tempering it at a dull red without going above non-magnetic. Hold it there for an hour, or at long as you can stomach, then let it air cool. Again, keep it below non-magnetic during the whole process. See what happens.

KA75, Greenfield, IN, $3000: http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/tls/2178810285.html 25 lb. LG, Ft. Wayne, $2800: http://fortwayne.craigslist.org/tls/2184594066.html 65 lb. Krusty (?) near Spokane, $1850: http://spokane.craigslist.org/tls/2200192290.html Sahinler SM-50, Kansas City, $4300: http://kansascity.craigslist.org/bfs/2185285094.html And finally, a...uh....naked anvil? Grant, is this some kind of elaborate joke? http://terrehaute.craigslist.org/tls/2200649020.html

"Explain everything." Wow. You're not afraid to think big, but you're asking a lot more than I think you realize. Dr. Jim Hrisoulas hasn't managed to explain everything in three big books -- he's working on number four right now, I believe! Of course those are more in-depth than what you need just to attempt a basic sword, but you're still asking a lot. Good luck.

I should add that if you're worried about respiratory threats, welding fumes and grinding dust should be taken seriously.

Here's an old thread on the subject with some good info: My take is that black boogers are always a sign that there's something in the air that your body doesn't want to be breathing. And hanging out in a smoky environment is never particularly wise, regardless of the source of the smoke. That said, the concentrations of dust and pollutants that you're going to encounter in reasonably well ventilated shop are likely to be far lower than what coal miners experience. We're not blowing up tons upon tons of coal, then moving it around all day and stirring up all the pulverized fines.

Actually, first thing I did was go to MatWeb and do an alloy search using the composition he provided. http://www.matweb.com/search/CompositionSearch.aspx

Brownell's. McMaster-Carr. Ellis Custom Knifeworks, maybe. Kelly Cupples. (Google is your friend on all those.) Call your local heat treater, if you have one. He'll probably sell you a bucketful if you beg. Big oil companies' local distributors may be able to get it for you, but probably won't want to deal with the quantities you want. (Unless you're quenching very hard and fast, a one-at-a-time bladesmith probably doesn't need more than three gallons. The rule of thumb is a gallon per pound of steel.) I've heard Heatbath is downright unpleasant about refusing to talk to individuals. You may have better luck finding a local distributor or end user through Houghton.

It's a maraging steel. Looks like something from the 18Ni family. http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=54d654bef4f84c4c886a44290cc5cc3c http://www.imoa.info/moly_uses/moly_grade_alloy_steels_irons/maraging_steels.html http://www.keytometals.com/articles/art103.htm

He's laughing at you, because aluminum plating steel is a very specialized and unusual process. It's definitely not something the Chinese are doing on cheap junk knives. This is why so many knowledgeable people here think you must be a troll: so much of what you write is obvious nonsense. Your posts illustrate the saying, "often in error but never in doubt." And when you get called on it, you just dig the hole deeper. First it's Al-Fe alloy knives, then when that doesn't work out they become Al-plated, which is also nonsense. (And how do you "electroplate" steel with Al and have it contain just enough Fe to be magnetic? And as Grrant pointed out, that wouldn't make economic sense even if it could be done. Complete bull, all of it.) If you want to be considered a valuable member of this community, a good start would be to stop spreading misinformation. Everyone makes mistakes now and then, but when it becomes a regular thing, that's bad.

Great post, Steve. I think it's appropriate to add that the traditional, slow cooling anneal from well above critical really isn't appropriate for any steel with more than about 0.85% carbon (hypereutectoid steels), because it encourages formation of grain boundary carbides that promote brittleness, interfere with stock removal operations (grinding/filing, etc.), and can be very difficult to fix prior to hardening. With those steels -- which include O1 and 1095, to name two very common ones -- you probably should be looking at a spheroidizing treatment of some kind instead of a full anneal. I would add that there are multiple ways to achieve a spheroidized condition, so if you're interested in this it's worth doing some research. The sub-critical anneal that Steve describes will give you a spheroidal condition. Kevin Cashen and Howard Clark have both written some helpful stuff about this, which can be found via Google with a little searching.