monstermetal

Not rounds but I have over a ton of 3" X 5" flat bar in 4340

I think I would try just making a regular set of pos style tongs and set the jaws at 120 deg instead of 90 Then twist the jaws 60 deg to one side so the flats are in line with the reins ... Or just leave it with the point at top center.. either way when you turn it 90deg you'll have a point or flat

I know there are lots of breaker bits made from 8630 and 8620...(Again Grants wisdom) They tend to be the 1" square ones used in Rivet Busters. When I heat treat those I do a "blacksmiths heat treat" in that I quench them in oil till I figure they are down to about 300 deg based on the oil smoke coming off and then let them air cool.. Pretty amazing toughness for such a basic HT operation. What size of material are you making the dies out of? I know its more money but I really like 4340 for high use dies and swages and I use it as forged. My ramp die I use for the bits is a un heat treated chunk of 4340 and I have done maybe 60 thousand bits on it only dressing it occasionally...

Gaylan do you have the address and room info so we could send him a care package?

Pretty dang cool Mike, I wanna come visit more every day... Spending days on the hammer and nights down listening to some southen music and local food sounds like a dream come true....

That's a fine example of Grants sense of humor... ;-)

First off I got to say that the motivation to pen this came from a conversation I had with Brent Bailey and his desire to do something very similar to post on his website…. I in no way am intending to rip off Brent’s idea and I ask him to forward me a copy of his writings to post on the site once he has it put together…. But during the conversation I just felt like it was time to say a little something about our lost friend, something I had been meaning to do but had a hard time actually sitting down to type it out. There is a lot that can be said about Grant. He could be difficult to deal with, frustrating and goofy…. He had a strange sense of humor that some found hilarious and others offensive… But one thing that no one could argue is Grant was the real deal. At least for me he took a long time to warm up to… I tried for several years to get him help me with some mechanical projects that where over my head with no luck. He blew me off kind of like you would any kid asking silly questions but I kept at it. Finally one day I got him to come by and look at something I was working on and basically like the flick of a switch he opened up and started to share his knowledge.. I think a big part of this was he saw that I was trying, that I was doing and making mistakes… I was not just talking about these things to talk about them but I was spending the time to work through it. From that point on Grant taught me many lessons, many of which I didn’t want to learn but he thought I should…. Often I would call up and ask how he had done something in the past and he would reply “I don’t remember”… So I would try and fail and call back up and tell him what happened and he would start right in… Well what I did was this and this and you need to change that…. He knew all along what I need to do but he wanted me to try and learn something before he gave the answers… I think there is a lot of wisdom and respect in that.. Grant had my back…. Sometimes he would complain, bitch and whine about how much time something took he had quoted me $500 to build for me, some die or tool, and how it should have cost double that … And then not accept any money when it came time to settle up…. One time I really needed some help figuring out some industrial production forging process and he told me it would cost $500 for him to come show me… In the big picture having the “pro” come and help me out $500 was a small price to pay… But after we worked it out he more or less demanded that we spend the next 8 hours tearing down and repairing a hammer that had issues just for the fun of it…. Grant really was a funny guy… He was very giving in his own way while sometimes seeming otherwise…. He was very open with some knowledge and very protective of other bits… Grants heart I think was always in the right place no matter how stand offish he might act… I really miss the guy… We talked often and honestly I got to where I sometimes wouldn’t answer when he called, not because I didn’t want to talk to him but because I knew I would likely have to spend an hour before I could get off the phone and back to work.. Some might think its strange for guys who had 25 years between them to be friends but we shared a lot , laughed a lot and I can’t speak for Grant but I sure enjoyed being around him. I don’t know all of Grants history but I have very little problem saying that Grant may be the most influential American blacksmiths to lived in the last 100 years. Some would say that Francis Whitaker, Samuel Yellin or one of many other great smiths…. But let me ask you this… Who as a single man has had a direct hand in creating and furthering the craft… Grants tools have been used to create thousands and thousands of works of art, Grant will not have books written about his work, He doesn’t have fancy scrolled bits hanging in prestigious places in the way more recognized blacksmiths might… But Grant has had a bigger impact and influence than any of them ever will to the actual creation of forged iron. You would be hard pressed to enter any modern blacksmith shop anyplace in the country that does not have at least one of Grants tools in it…. And if you can find one I would bet that at least one of the tools that is there was influenced by one of Grants products… As far as I am concerned Grant perfected modern tongs…. He made them everything they should be and nothing they don’t need to be… he brought mass produced textures and swages to beginners and experts alike allowing people to both have more fun and make more money as a blacksmith… Grant took industrial scale forging process only profitable for big business and perfected them to make incidental things for a niche market in a little shop with equipment he built and modified. We will probably not see another Grant in our lifetime in the blacksmithing community…. His influence and innovation will carry on long after his departure because every time you pick up a tool he made a piece of his soul is put into that work…. All I hope is now and again you stop and give a bit of respect and thanks for our friend. When you pick up that pair of tongs you thank him for all he has done for the blacksmithing community… You see him for what he was… A good person who did good work that helped every last one of us in some way….

We do have a lot of hammers in Washington, it's because historicly we have been willing to pay more money than in the south or the east coast. A hammer that brings $2500 in the south might sell for $4500 here so over the last two decades a lot have migrated... There is also way more smiths in Washington than most other states... There at atleast 100 power hammers withing a 50 mile circle of my shop, but that's because there is 75 shops many with two or three hammers

The best hammer is the one you can hit metal with...., The old style hammers I think hit a bit harder, I think the new style is easer to adjust and maintain. I wouldn't get hung up too much on the style, I'd buy the best condition at the best price and ignore its particular vintage.. Much better to have a soild machine that's not the style you like than a worn out junker that's the one you think is the better model....

There is also a 100lber on the NWBA forum for sale for $2500, almost forgot about that one....

Looks like your having a good bit of fun ol buddy..... Cant wait to see some video

John if you keep inviting me down there someday I am going to show up on your step with a bottle of scotch and expect you to feed and entertain the wife and I for the weekend….

Chris without knowing the whole story its hard to offer much help. The actual freight is likely to be only part of the expense. As others have said you need to load it on the other end and it needs a study skid built for it at the very least if its going common carrier (if its loaded on a flat deck they will chain it and its not such a big deal) I have sent hammers all over the country and most of the time it seems pretty reasonable but I haven’t sent one recently. I shipped a 3B from here to Wisconsin several years ago for $1300 that was almost 11,000 pounds. I shipped that Nazel 4N to Jesse James shop in Long Beach for around $1200 and It seems like the 2B I sent to Tony in LA was around $800 (he set that one up) But again that is just shipping charges… If you have to have someone drive out to the site and load the hammer on a truck you could spend as much getting that done as the freight would cost (it shouldn’t cost that much but it could) On another note Our NWBA prez Bill Apple just picked up a 100lb LG that I think he intends to fix up and sell….. I would expect that hammer to be in the $3500 range but that’s speculation, it could be more or less…. Also Paul Estes in Rainer has the 100lb LG I sold him for sale on Craigslist for $5000 (I would talk to him and see if he is ready to sell it for something more in line with going prices) Or if you wanted a bigger hammer there is a 250lb LG on a auction in Seattle this week that I am going to bid on if it goes low enough…. I don’t really have any need of it I just wanted to make sure someone didn’t steal it…. If the bidding stops below $2000 or so I’ll end up owning it… I also have a 300 lb Beaudry that I’ll most likely be selling…. I paid $5700 for it but might take less depending on how I feel that particular day….

Bob Waits always sounds like its his worst moment of the worst day in every song... You cant help but feel better just being glad your not him....

Aww, Richfield A town between nothing and noplace.... My great grandparents had a little shack on Magic and I fished there as a kid... If you drew a line east from Shoshone and south from Richfield where they intersect you would find my Moms house... I would love to live back in that country... A little farther west, Fairfield sounds about right....

Thanks Jeff.... I have thought a lot about you in the months that have past... Mostly just because I remember so well that morning prior to finding Andrew hearing of your loss and thinking how tragic and unthinkable... And thank you everyone else too....

Come on Bruce.... You gonna tell me you only do things that you have the proper tools for and never try to make due with what you have? If you have nothing but time then all you have to lose is time..... And your right, its not a good idea and I wouldnt try it if there was another option....

Yeah that guy doesnt know much about vises if he is calling that a 10".... It is a nice looking vise though.... I have a 8" columbian and a 9" vise that came from the Geneva steel mill... Both are real close to 200 pounds.... The guy who had the ebay listing for the vise in this thread offered me $1200 for the 9" at one point and I turned him down (in hind sight I should have taken it when I had the chance but thats the way it goes)

You could oxy/fuel weld that if you have a torch.... It would be miserable and take forever... but it could be done. If I had to tackle that and all I had was a little mig I think I would try.... It would take a huge bevel so you could weld your way back from the center, it would take keeping the whole thing at a hotter than pre heat temp (like over 1000F)... It would take at least a day to weld because of the duty cycle of the welder.... laying bead after bead stepping out in the bevel till you get to the edge.... And still it wouldn’t be like it was welded with a "real" welder..... I think Bruce should say "It cant be done properly" rather than cant be done...

Well mathematically I should be about 10,000 watts input.... The machine I use in my production is a 25KW 420V three phase with a rated input of 23A so if you do the math that’s 9660 watts... As far as empirically measuring the input since its 420V three phase Im not sure how you could measure, maybe a amp clamp but I think you would have to isolate a single leg of the cord... I currently don’t have a 15KW set up in the shop but I will have soon.. I got one on its way that I plan on using as a demo unit... On a side note I have two machines, A 15KW self contained single phase unit and a 15KW split transformer unit that both need repairs... I don’t even know what is wrong with them, they were at Grants shop when I packed up his stuff and I brought them home figuring if nothing else they would make good spares..... Since your brother seems to be both knowledgeable about induction and electronics maybe I should send you one and see if you can figure out its issues? The guy who Grant used to have do repairs on the machines had a stroke and is not in such good shape these days and I have not found anyone local who wants to work on them... There are very few (Grant has sold over 300 machines and have had a total of 5 machines have fail in the last 8 years) but when they do have issues it would sure be nice to have someone to trouble shoot.... I can order all the major machine parts individually so repair should just mean figuring out what module or component is bad and replacing it..

A 100 pound Beaudry will do twice the work of a 100lb Kinion style air hammer (or Little Giant for that matter) It would be a fantastic all around machine.... Id jump on it if you could...

Everything is a bit small.... You could by quite a lot of hammer these days for $10,000.... I'll sell you a 300 lb Beaurdry for half that and I dont think many folks would buy a home built one off hammer for double what you can buy a Beaurdy for no matter how pretty it is.... It very well could have fantastic control and hit pretty good, but it wont do the work the Beaurdy will...

Sorry to have high jacked the thread... I will keep it related to your cool home built machine ;-)

John good to have you! Nice to have guys who understand the tech side of these machines, I wish I had a better understanding of the mechanics involved. The machines I import in the 15KW size have a range of 30khz to 100khz and that seems to be ideal for blacksmithing operations.. The larger 25KW machines have a bit narrower range of 30khz to 80khz... John will your machines be water cooled? Many of the operations I use my machine for the machine is running at close to full power full time... I have coils made that I rotate parts in and out with several parts always being heated so I can keep up with work ( there is always a hot part)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110912666027&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 Looks to be a well built machine but in todays economy I think you would have a real hard time fetching that kind of cash... In reality I think you would have a hard time getting half of that... But maybe I am just a pesimist