monstermetal

Well here are a few of the vises I use and my "Big" vises... There is a 4" in the pic with the 8" and 9" for scale.... The 9" is 215lbs... The one on the stand with the Wilton machinest vise is a 5 3/4 and the stand alone one is a 6 3/4..

Yeah I guess it is an issue of target retail price. If the thing sells for $2500 an extra $350 for shipping is not a big deal.

Yeah I suppose the savings in doing a run of bases would offset the shipping cost . Maybe you could break the base into two parts that bolt together to get under the 150 lb ups shipping limit?

Do you think there would be a market for just the tooling? So you would sell the guy what ever top chunks he wanted and include a cad file of the base so he could take it in to his local burning outfit. That way a guy could add mass, maybe cut it out of 4" plate if he wanted and you wouldn't have to ship 300lbs across the country. Could you build all the taper in the "tool" and make the slot in the base square? Of course still offer a finished anvil as well

mmmm So If I came up with enough material to make two prototypes could I keep one for long term testing purposes?

Just an update... I have this thing running and am quite excited about it. It will stroke 12" in 6.5 seconds which is pretty impressive for a 20" diameter cylinder It will do a full 12" stroke and return in 10 seconds... blazing fast for a 210 ton press... I have slumped 4" sch 40 pipe cold and can squish 8" of 2 1/2" solid to about a 1" thick hockey puck at forging temp in about 4 seconds.... Here are a few things I have squished

Yeah I did. I had called Friday and left a message that I would buy the hammer and would be there first thing Monday to load it out. That was before Grant told me I should share. If I hadn't given my word I'd be there i might have waited till they opened and just called. You know if Clide needs the hammer, who ever he is well then so be it. If he was just buying it to resell and make a quick buck.. Well that wouldn't make me feel so good. The reason I an on the hunt for a small hammer is to make a portable machine to take to hammerins and our semi annual conferances. I don't want to exactly give it to our group but I want it to be available for classes demos and other group affiliated functions. of course the rest of the time I would Be working the little guy. Even though the champion was ideal in both price and ability I'm sure another machine will come along that will fit the bill. It's just another day. Somedays your the pidgen. Some days your the sidewalk

Well it is a number 1 (65 lb) and in great shape. I was there at 7am waiting while eveyone had there coffee. About 730 I found Joe and told him I wanted it. He came out and looked at my trailer and we talked a bout how to load it. Went and found the crane operator and sent him out to rig it. Then we went up to the office and found the owner. Joe told him I was buying the hammer. He said. Nope just sold it to the guy on the phone. Joe argued with him a bit and said "hey this guys been here, is here now". The owner said well I told Clide it was his and he is driving down from Mount Vernon. I don't have a phone number and I'm not breaking my word". So. Long story short. I left without the hammer. I thought it was kinda crappy since I had already made the deal with who I thought I needed to be making the deal with but such is life. Nothing wasted but a few hours time. Really is a nice hammer. Much nicer than the #1 I got $3000 for a few years back

Your absolutely right... If you looked at nothing but what my accountant sees you would wonder why in the world I was willing to work 80 hours a week to make $18,000 a year... but for the last three years I have grossed over $200K and managed to sink 40 to 60 grand a year into upgrading and expanding capability... all while "profiting" the equivalent of minimum wage, or less... The only way to get ahead as a small (read one man shop) is to sacrifice green taxable money and reinvest in yourself... Im going to gross pretty close to 200K this year when many guys just like me are closing up shop in these parts... The key is I buy good used stuff, the best I can afford. And I mean that, Its all paid for, I don't owe a dime on anything in my shop and there is nothing I need bad enough to borrow money to buy... Sometimes Ive had to sell machinery I would have liked to keep to buy other machinery.... But you cant keep all the girls you kiss either.... ( I guess nor would I want to ) One of the reasons I do it is because of my love of tools and equipment. For many a tool or machine is just the means to an end.. For me many times the tool itself is the end. I have a 6 foot long tool box full of my "good" handtools that stays locked most days, I use the "shop" tools for most things, and my "shop" tools are probably better than most... I bet I have at least a hundred tools in my shop that have never been used... I have 10 milk crates full of my antique tool collection that used to adorn the walls of my office back when I bought and sold tools for a living. I have a 100 year old micro power hacksaw that has been cleaned up and pinstriped besides my desk and a collection of mini vises on my bookshelf... I live and breath tools Now I am not a brand snob and I don't typically buy things new... for me there is no joy in walking on the Snap On truck and dumping a zillion bucks on a shiny wrench set.... But I own several sets of Snap On wrenches that I got in trades or bought right... My rule is I wont pay more than I think I could sell them for on any given day... Which as anyone who has ever had to sell anything in one day knows is about half of what its worth... So its not just about getting the tool.... At least half of it is finding the deal, the right deal..... There is no joy in buying anything the "hard way" Not to say there is no value in making your own tooling or equipment but the fact of the matter is I cant afford my own time... Shoot my shop charges $95/hr and don't hardly make minimum wage! But there usually is money in the budget for a new gizmo to make my time more valuable on someone elses job My goal is 10 or 15 years down the road I'll have a really nice shop that is all paid for, and I can tell everyone else to kick rocks and work on my own stuff... But until then I'll just be collecting tools and working my tail off

wow no kidding... I have almost 10,000 sq feet of shop space and triple that of fenced yard.... And am not that far from having to move in and ditch the house all together.... My wife is not to keen on sharing the bedroom with a milling machine though.....

Well if it is really a 35lb hammer I would say its awful light for welding damascus.. A Hydraulic press would me much better suited.... But as the man said, It could be done, Just like you can shoot holes in silver dollars thrown in the air....:D

If someone really needs it more than me I'll give..... But if there are no takers by 9 or so Sunday night Im gonna lay claim. I had a couple of champion hammers and I really regret selling them, fantastic little workhorse. And I really think thats a number one (65lb) not a zero (35lb) So.... Any other local guys that REALLY need a hammer? ( this would make 6 at my one man shop so I cant really say that I NEED it):)

I'll take it I'll be there 730am on Monday with hundred dollar bills and a smile....

Ask Grant (Nakedanvil) Im pretty sure he originally designed and built the KA75... My guess is those are purpose built specifically for the hammer and not a off the shelf part

Me too..... I am the best equipped & most under skilled guy you would likely ever meet. Not that I am proud of that but its the truth. Like I said in my original post, I'm a tool collector. I am finally progressing to the point that its not ridiculous to own the tools I own but only just barely... But just because you don't "need" something doesn't mean it cant be a whole lot of fun to own and play with.... Is it that strange that I would rather have a Nazel than a Corvette? That I sold my Harley so I could buy a Chambersburg? But still every time I go to a conference or attend a blacksmith event I feel a little depressed... I look at the skill and craftsmanship of my peers and wished I would have caught the bug 15 years earlier. And I dont know that I'll would ever have the artistic ability to be a name in the blacksmith world even if I had a 100 years to practice. If I could trade every single tool in my shop in exchange for the knowledge, skill and understanding that comes with a lifetime of working at the anvil... Id make that trade in a second.... The tools are meaningless in the face of knowledge and skill.... But since I live in the "real" world and its unlikely I'll run into a "skills" fairy any time soon... I'll just keep practicing and taking classes and making an effort to improve a little every day... I guess I should also say that metalworking is my only source of income and I do spend an average of 80 hours a week doing what I can to learn.. That 5 years ago I quit a great job because I knew that without working at it full time I would never become the metalworker I aspired to be... How does this relate to cast anvils? Well I guess my thought is although I find having a nice tool increases the joy of its use, A inferior tool in the hands of a master will do a fine job.. He (or she) will produce in spite of the tools shortcomings... A superior tool in the hands of a average smith just makes the average work he does a little more enjoyable

Well its not like you have no "gems" in your pile Bill... How is that vise coming?

Ok... Now I am neither smart nor all that knowledgeable... So with that disclaimer take what I have to say with the appropriate heed Its all about physics.. A action has a reaction and the details are pretty easy to see in real life, Best thing I can think of as an example is a rubber "super" ball. Take your super ball and chuck it at a concrete slab as hard as you can.. its likely to bounce clear over into the next county someplace... Now if you can find it.. with the same force throw that sucker into a nice sandbox.... Not going to get much bounce ( read results for effort expended ) Why? The same effort was put into the throw so you should get the same result? Nope because the sand is a thief... It absorbs and displaces all the energy you put in and returns very little to the ball. Same thing is happening on a dead anvil. Rather than return the energy expended in the form of "work" done on your forging. it sucks it up giving you far less "result" This is also why a bigger anvil is better, the more mass and the harder the face the more "work" is done with each blow. Now there are a lot of things that are as or more important. A starting blacksmith has much better things to worry about than anvil efficiency, however I think in many ways a chunk of Rail or a nice big block of steel can be superior to a gray iron ASO (anvil shaped object) Cast iron anvils do have there place, I have a real cute one that makes a dandy doorstop. Like I said, Im not all that smart, but I can tell you worrying about perfecting your hammer swing and forging style... Practice practice practice... Do it on a cast iron anvil for that matter... Those are whats important... Time learning technique... I am a relative newbie to forging with about 7 years playing around, I can tell you its only within the last year that I learned to swing a hammer... and not to say that I mastered it, only that I learned how inefficient and ineffective my "technique" was and how important that simple "swing" is My point is.... When you can forge a long taper on a 1" round bar in one heat its going to be really important that you have the right anvil, its going to make a huge difference in your life.... If you cant forge a long taper on a 5/16 round bar in one heat... What kind of anvil you have or how big it is... is not a huge factor in your performance.... I am a firm believer in quality tools... I collect tools as a hobby and I use many tools in my "collection" to pay my bills as well as pass the time in an enjoyable manner. It is simply more fun to use a quality tool... Its more fun to own a finely crafted and well cared for anvil than a chunk of "gray" iron pored in China by some poor guy making $.28 a day... I know I dont think like everybody but If you had two people both rebuilding a 1976 AMC pacer and one had the cheapest and basic crap you can buy at harbor freight... The other had a full complement of Snap on tools... All other things being equal... The Snap on guy would be having a much better day....

(dont forget the Chambersburg )

Ok... so I put forging in quotes because I know by what most blacksmiths think of as a forging press... This is actually a industrial forging press... (at least thats what I think) It makes 210 ton. Has a 12" stroke and has a 15HP motor with a two stage pump. Im not sure how much oil it moves on the fast side, but on the slow(high pressure) side it moves 14 gpm. It has 1 1/2 steel lines and the manual control valve must weigh 200 lbs. It has quick change die holders and came with a set letter stamps and a holder for them. It was used by a railroad switchgear manufaucture to mark there name in their parts... Its over 10 feet tall and a 8000lb forklift couldn't pick it up...... Im pretty excited to get it up and running. I have a friend who is an engraver and would like to try coining some tokens.. Of course there is lots of other fun things I can think of doing with it as well.... The best part was I got it for $350:) the only down side is we dropped it in the middle of my shop right in the way of everything... and I now I cant move it...(at least not without some major effort, the thing is over 10 feet tall, weighs around 5 ton.... and only has like a 30" square foot print... "top heavy" is a huge understatement!)

I would guess thats the hammer I have for sale? a 75lb in Seattle? If you had any interest in in I will be going to southern Idaho next week, could get it that far for you. Larry

based on your picture I would guess your hammer is between 150-200 lb tup weight. I would guess that would put your machines overall weight range between 7 to 9 thousand... I would guess that 250 lb murray would be under the very bottom of that range. 5000-6000 lbs... Thats a lot of guesses but I think Im pretty close. I have a 3B Nazel (280lb tup) and a 2ch Chambersburg (200lb tup) both are just sitting on a concrete floor with no additional foundation (a wood crib to isolate but no metal or concrete) My hammers are both one peice machines so that makes the anvil placement moot. As far as your situation I would say the larger the initial foundation the better the performance of the hammer, the isolated mass under the hammer has a direct impact on its function. You can never get to big, only to expensive. So yeah, I would dig as deep as you can with the excavator if you dont mind the concrete expense. A couple yards of mud in a big hole is way more than most of these hammers are set on. I have not set up a two peice hammer but my understanding is the hammer frame is secured to the foundation but the anvil is not, the anvil floats on the foundation and is aligned to the frame by driving wedges around the anvil... I dont know about the block of wood under it.. Seems to me that would not be a good thing. A small layer of wood to act as a insulator I understand, but that's really what your conveyor belt is doing.. a 32" thick chunk of wood seems to me like it would rob much of value of the concrete below. I would send Grant (nakedanvil) a private mail and ask what he would do, Grant has forgot more about powerhammers than most people will ever know and Im sure has set up several that are similar to yours. Another good resourse is Bob Bergman of the postville blacksmith shop. You can find a phone number for Bob by putting his name and postville in Google

I think I still have a 3.25" bore 12" stroke parker air cylinder with air cushions top and bottom I bought for a hammer project that Im not going to use.. If you want it Id sell it for what I paid ( I think about $140) It looks good as new..

yeah Im serious.... what are you looking for? I dont mean to hijack the thread or push my stuff... I was really just commenting on the difficulty of finding buyers for the stuff...

Like the man said... There is a market, just not a hot market. I have several hundred pounds of blacksmith tooling made from wrought... Ive had it for years and have asked $1/lb for it..... very little has found a new home. Still its worth holding on to or trying to sell. You should bring it to the NWBA conference in the Spring (its in Mount Vernon I think) If nothing else you'll have plenty of people to talk to about it.

I have bought and sold a lot of vises (50? maybe more)... I dont know how what you paid has anything to do with what its worth... I paid $450 for a real nice 8" vise that I spent quite a bit of time building a nice base for and after a year or two sold it for something less than that ($425 I think, I really just didnt like it much) I have a really nice 6.5" that I just put into service that I paid $50 that I wouldn't sell for $400 I have a 9" 215lb vise I paid $500 for and have turned down a $1500 offer on. I have a 7" that Id be happy to get $150 for... an 190 lb 8" Colombian that I got as a freebie in a trade but wouldn't take less than $650 for In my humble opinion this is a fairly undefinable thing... There are so many variables that its imposable to set a "standard" value. Id gladly pay $200-$300 for a 5" German high cheek vise... I know the big parallel jaw Fishers will bring $700-$800+ in really nice shape.. and like my 9" monster... Its worth what ever someone will pay. I know there are bigger vises out there but no one I know has ever seen one in person. When you are talking about a "standard" 3" to 5" vise that is in ready to use condition around here you would expect to pay (from me at least) $80-$150... If its really nice maybe $200 Once you get past 6" its really just all about the vise. It could be worth from $150 to ?? who knows.. maybe a couple grand if it was the end all be all.... On a side note I can tell you that in the Northwest the price of a good post vise as dropped quite a bit. A few years back a nice 6-7" vise would bring $300-$500 at the blacksmith swap or conference... today those vises will only bring $150-$250 The last swap meet I took half a dozen vises to sell, priced them half of what I would have a year ago and only sold one ( I have since sold the rest of that pile, so I feel pretty good about stating "value", someone thought what I was asking was fair) Anyway Im a tool junkie and a cheap one at that. I wouldn't pay what something is "worth" unless I really needed it.. I only buy bargains.. so if I bought it, In my mind its worth more than what I paid and that almost always turns out to be the case, or at least I can find someone who is willing to pay more than I did...