Steve Sells

Very nice john. be sure and post the finished blade.

I don't know about assigning bias, but export laws and taxes can be a pain. That maybe the real reason they don't ship there. So far I have had few out of country orders. When I did get my first order from OZ, I did check into the legal issues. If a foreign order ever causes me any grief, I wont ship there again either.


I am not anti foreign, but I am going to complain about anyone that wrongfully takes from those that work to earn a thing, and to defend those that have had it taken from them.

that one problem, with using (not always so) common names, rather than standard designations.

Spring steel is not 'A' steel, its a term for a family of steel with like properties.Likewise tool steel is not 'A' steel but another family of steels.

Both these groups do have over lapping members. As for your softer sword, that may be only because ii was treated with his batch of swords. The temps were set for his steel, and may not have been correct temps for hardening and/or tempering temps for that steel you used.

It may be fine for swords IF you identify the correct temps.

also the owner of the kmg specifically won't sell to canada.. .. i know, i tried several times to get one and it didn't matter what money i had... the answer was a flat out "no"...

there are lots of clone plans floating around the net for it... and he doesn't seem to care....... besides, his design looks an awful lot like the bader... hmmm

let see Basic equipment is only a hammer to hit the metal with, something to get it hot, and some backing thing to hit against, all the rest are nice, but not needed.

Buy a copy of the Wayne Goddard book "the $50 knife shop" $9.95 at amazon.com It is exactly what the title says, how to get and use a running working knife shop and spending less than $50.

to get you started:
Hammer: I do not advise a nailing hammer as the face is small and too hard. $10 or less can get you a usable 2# or 3# forging hammer at a hardware store, but at a garage sale its normally $1.

Most use an anvil: But this does not have to be a brand new store bought item. This can be a chunk form the scrap yard, you don't even need to put a horn if you are doing blades. A large flat like a I beam, or square block works, and scrap yards charge less than anvil makers.

Getting metal hot can be at the simplest a hole in the ground with a pipe to put air into it to get the fuel hotter. IN the book , you will see that many have build a one brick forge, by cutting a hole through the center of a large fire brick, then using a 1 pound propane torch, to shoot fire through a small hole coming through the side. Making a small gas forge.

So far your cost is now $30 or less and you are ready to hammer away, as you sell blades, use that money to buy more toys like the rest of us. Welcome to the community of I Forge Iron. Be sure to join us Friday at 10pm EST for the live Knife chat, in our forum.

One problem with your name is that I will get confused now when people call for you but at least you have a number. Welcome to I Forge Iron, there is a lot of information about many areas here. Make yourself at home.

I would thin out the 1084 first. But its ok as you suggested, to double up the 15N20 also.

As to layer count its personal preference, and the pattern you are trying to get. While I personally like higher layer counts of 400 to 600, the lower count blades of 70 to 100 layers, seem to sell first.

try this link for detailed info about titanium Metallurgy of Titanium and its Alloys

I<snipped> Dinner was good but the conversation at dinner was rather cold.

there are always Files. slower than a machine, but less costly to get if you don't need it a lot.

hollow ground is from using the contact wheel.

not me, HE did it ------>

A few years ago when on vacation, we visited a ren fair. While the family was walking around, I saw a smith having trouble gettting his forge fire going so I stopped and offered to help.

Well a few hours later my son came back to bring me lunch, because I was still in that forge giving the fill-in-smith lessons. My wife didn't understand why I spent a day of our 2 week vacation teaching a beginner smithing basics.

But I was in the middle of a 2 week vacation and I saw this guy needing help. Blacksmithing is not a problem for me, I can quit any time.... I am sure I can quit any time, I think I can quit anytime, well maybe I can.....

Last night there was a strange topic in the chat as some people have no idea the ferrous metal means. Ferrous it not a synonym for magnetic as some want to think. and stainless steel IS ferrous at it is steel, and titanium is not ferrous not steel.

Ferrous, in chemical science, indicates a bivalent iron compound (+2 oxidation state), as opposed to ferric, which indicates a trivalent iron compound (+3 oxidation state).[1]

Outside of chemical science, ferrous is an adjective used to indicate the presence of iron.[1] The word is derived from the Latin word ferrum (iron).[2] Ferrous metals include steel and pig iron (which contain a few percent of carbon) and alloys of iron with other metals (such as stainless steel.)

The term non-ferrous is used to indicate metals other than iron and alloys that do not contain an appreciable amount of iron.[3]

1] ferrous - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
2] Etymology (Meaning of Words): Origin of a word, iron rust, ferrus
3] non ferrous - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

compiled from knife chat Jan 30-09


[markb] How do you Differential heat treat?

[steve sells] I can think of 3 methods off hand: Japanese style of clay the spine areas, Wayne Goddard style of using water to keep spine cool, and the edge quenching, I am sure there are more ways as well.
I clay coating consists of covering the spine and parts of the edge before hardening with a mixture that while still allowing the blade to heat, slows down the cooling in the quench on the areas covered. Allowing the cutting section of the blade to harden, but preventing the rear from conversion to martensite. this has been common for centuries in Japanese style blades, and more modern as well. The physical action will usually cause the blade to warp into a curve, so straight blades in this style are normally counter curved to compensate for this effect due to that side getting conversion, and expanding.
[nts] does it curve up, or to one side?
[mcraigl] Steve, do they warp toward or away from the edge.
[steve sells] the warp is away from the cutting edge

[steve sells] Wayne Goddard, mentions another method, This way the spine never gets hot enough for conversion, as it is kept in water bath while only the cutting edge is heated. this really only works in small blades, but offers the option of combining tempering IN the hardening process. After heating the cutting edges to proper temp the entire blade is plunged into the water mostly cooled, the raised from the water bath to allow residual heat to drift into the cutting portion, then quenched again, and so on, now I only mentioned 3 I am aware of to harden ONLY the cutting edge of a blade.
[Rich Hale] Make notes now Mark and it will help you in research

[steve sells]3rd method good for straight blades of any size is edge quenching, where only the cutting edge is placed into the quenchant to harden, allowing the spine to remain peralite
[markb] why only straight blades
[steve sells] Because the surface of the quenchant is flat due to gravity.
[markb] can't rock the blade?
[steve sells] a blade does curve when hardened this way but if curved prior, then how are you going to get only the edge into the liquid while? I can't rock a blade from one end to the other in less than 0.8 second to beat the nose of the curve needed for quenching. While one larty is in, another is exposed, and not being quenched.

[mcraigl] Oops, I assume that all three of these methods cause some amount of warping then? with Wayne Goddard perhaps the least and the edge quench the most?
[steve sells] all will due to the conversion Only being at one edge. Differential hardening can have limitations. but it insures that only the edge of the blade gets hardened, it is not really usable for everything but there is still full hardening, so weird things like a German Flamberge can be hardened
[Finnr] using a torch for differential temper is one slightly risky way of getting a hard edge and softer back. I also often use a cheap electric hotplate to do a differential temper.
[steve sells] to get the soft spine there we use a differential TEMPERING process to soften the spine more than the edge First temper the entire blade in an oven so its all where ya want the edge, Then using a torch, or heated metal, apply heat to the pine and quench before that color creeps into the edge.
[N8 Knives] what is used for the clay in japanese style
[N8 Knives] does any kind of clay work?
[steve sells] many people have their own thing, I use refractory cement for lining the gasser Once I used fire brick cement. If it can survive the shock of the heating then quenching AND slowe heat transfer. it should work


[mcraigl] The amazing part to me is that ANY sort of clay would stay stuck to the blade upon entering the quenchant.

[mcraigl] I think I've heard of crushing IFB and either making a slurry from it, or adding it to a clay slurry. You ever heard of that?
[N8 Knives] the clay doesnt have to stay on for the whole quench does it, just the initial dunk right
[steve sells] I use wires wrapped around the blade and clay coating. this assists with keeping the clay in place, it needs to stay till after the steel is quenched to below the martensite start point.
[nts] do you have to let it dry, i saw somewhere that it can still be damp when you heat and quench it
[LDW] I did not think you wanted it on the cutting edge
[steve sells] Dry or the damp will explode as water expands 150x when it turns to steam. I covered the entire blade paper thin (to prevent scale) then thicker over the rest others do leave the edge clean. I hung it over night in my house after the first layer, then 2 more nights after the thicker spinal layer was applied, the katana ended up with a smooth sine wave type hamon, even tho I used ashi, and "rolling breaker " type waves on the edge of the clay.
[N8 Knives] I read that each sword smith had their own design of removing the clay from the edge to create a unique hamon line
[steve sells] many have their own clays, pattern of the edge. etc but the hamon does not show the same way as the edge of the clay coat.
[mcraigl] Steve, Is this a process of many thin layers, or after the paper thin, can you go ahead and paste it on there. Also, if many layers, are we talking about a complete drying cycle between layers?

[mcraigl] So you can put the thicker part on in a single thick layer then if I understand you correctly. Good, I was afraid this was a month long process to get the clay on there, and I'm not that patient.
[Rich Hale] Half hour here

compiled from the Friday knife chat Jan 30-09


[nts] I plan on making a timing belt, forge welded knife, do i need to weld the layers together or could i just tack them until i get to forge weld them
[steve sells] up to you
[nts] i've seen it both ways
[mcraigl] bailing wire would probably work too nts.
[N8 Knives] i use bailing wire to hold it together for the first welding, i don't have an arch welder
[steve sells] with chain do not try to close it up all at once with a hammer, as the links tend to want to POP lose next to the hammered area
[Rich Hale] Nts that is not a beginners welding project too much room for bad weld
[steve sells] I have never welded, but that my training too
[nts] i'm not doing it right away i'm just asking while it's fresh in my head
[steve sells] try 1/4 thick bars thinner is harder and small sections like chain the worst
[nts] so like 6 layers of 1/4" welded together?
[markb] Good to know , haven't welded yet
[N8 Knives] i have a mechanic saving me a timing chain, i let you know how it goes, my bicycle and chainsaw experiments have worked well so far
[nts] yeah my dads a mechanic, that's why i'm asking
[N8 Knives] be careful with timing chain, some ive seen have chrome roller and chrome wont weld
[nts] yeah, art warned me
[steve sells] most of my layers are an odd number, using 2 different metals. I want the lowest alloy inside the billet to reduce scaling, like 2 layers of 203e and 3 layers of 1080.
[nts] ok guys, i gotta go, i'll talk to you all later
[bryan] ...Forge welding is often a black(smith) art!!!
[steve sells] pattern welding should come after learning the basics of knife making, as thats hard to get patterns then lose it because of not having the other skills yet
[N8 Knives] can i use mild steel theysell at home depot for damascus
[steve sells] use what ya want, but for a blade it stinks for bolsters its fine but it will not harden, why would ya want to use it ?
[N8 Knives] what if it is a san mai type of blade
[steve sells] that depends too, even san mai must use compatible metals or they putt apart in the heat treat

You can toss your lid into an outdoor fire just stay upwind, but only if you are out in a rural area. This should burn the zinc off.Warren

Its one thing to make a copy of a product for myself, but I feel that it is quite another issue to make one and then sell it with out regard to the owners rights to that products design and development.

Copyright law allows us to make another persons copyrighted product for ourselves, but its a crime to make another persons copyrighted product for resale with out paying proper fees for licensing and royalties.

I would hope that this person you are recommending has been licensed for this, but maybe Canada isn't upholding US trade laws or NAFTA anymore. If that is the case then Canadian designed products should soon become available here, made by our local people at a lower prices than Canadian imports as well.

Some that may think I am being a jerk about this, and maybe I am, but I doubt they have had their hard work stolen by another unscrupulous person taking the credit, as I have. But I admit that maybe I am too worried about others rights to what they have earned as well.

smithnet ?

Roach Proof is 98% boric acid, the remaining 2% is inert and as yet I fail to see any problems using it. Just that it makes visitors wonder seeing such a large supply of roach powder in my shop :D

As a plating, its not a good idea. As a steel additive it's commonly added for deep hardening.

There have already been plenty of posts about it, Mainly in the knife sections for pattern welding. What to use is partly dependent on what you are welding. For pattern welded blades I dont want the iron filings as they will spoil the looks at the weld lines, Silica sand hand been used with good results for centuries.

I use 90% borax and 10% boric acid. But for higher alloys I would add other things, like Florine compounds that I wont list here. Not for privacy or secrecy, but they are very aggressive and toxic, and I don't want beginners to poison themselves playing with it.

There are many methods to heat treat an item. Tip hard shaft and striking end soft. If one chooses differential hardening or differential tempering, it will make a good chisel.

There is a guy posting in the sword section that claims to cut stones with his sword, maybe ask him to borrow it?

Once again I must apologize but I could not hold this lame comment in any longer, I just had to say it :D

250# HB on the way