Richard Furrer

You can set the pressure on most pumps with a turn of a screw. The "standard" practice on blacksmith forging presses outside of industry are log splitter pumps. I suggest you get the book by Jim Batson on building a hydraulic forging press. The motor/pump/other calculations and parts are explained rather well. http://www.dfoggknives.com/hydralic.htm Ric

Finkl is in Chicago. http://www.finkl.com/About.aspx I have used the Finkl FX2 die steel for my 3B dies. A recut drop hammer die as you say. I did no secondary heat treatment to the blocks, but they were soft enough to machine ...I have had them on the hammer for only one job run so its too soon to tell if I need to heat treat them further. I wish I had more of it though. H13 and 4340 were on my list, but I had this 350 pound bottom die so.... Ric

I know Z&H made a #12, but not sure about larger. I think the #7 is a 50 ton, but I have found no one who can rate these numbers to tons. It may be that # is ton adding a zero..or it may jump a bit more with the higher numbers. Other than a strain gauge I am not sure how to accurately rate them either. Maybe do a bit of lead in size "X" forging under each and compare the final height?..you and Grant could do this. At any rate it looks like it has a good home and for that I am happy...this was sold by a forum member yes? It looks like one I had looked at last year, but I was also unsure about tonnage. Ric

What do you think the tonnage is on that one? Ric

Chuck Schaeffer..he built the two presses I have..I sold the first one he built for me and will soon be working with him on a fourth. Chuck Schaeffer cgschaef(at)chorus(dot)net The two cylinder I have is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FypNcOI96Tg I'll be selling it as soon as the new press proves itself. It has a flow divider (had one from Prince which went bad after four years, but installed a new one last year with little issue). Two five inch diam cylinders with tie rods holding it together and acting as guides. It runs at 2800PSI with a 22gpm haldex two stage pump off a 5hp 1800RPM motor (so its moving half the rated flow). Moves about 0.6 inches per second at high flow. Ric

The worst jobs are not the ones in which you alter the work, the worst jobs are the ones you under bid to begin with. Nothing can go wrong in architectural work that can not be fixed (cut,weld,remake a portion, whatever), but once you are working for free or less than free its a different ballgame. Ric

When in Florida we made these a lot...the fastest given the tooling we had was to form a taper and scroll it around leaving a hole and filling the hole with mig weld and then forging a bit flat (with a scaling heat) to get rid of the evidence. Not traditional, but it worked. I have seen a bottom die used in one of the COSIRA books which allowed for swaging or at least clean up of a pre-formed end. Maybe 17 years ago (18-15?) in a copy of "The Fabricator" by NOMMA there was a punch press article by a one armed smith who had three or four presses tooled to do these in one heat. I do not remember his name. I thought it foolish at the time, but now it is not...the difference between the young smith I was working for someone else and the slightly broken shop owner I am now. The floor is further away then it was. Maybe a call to NOMMA to see what shakes out. OH, There was also a wonderful two part article on the Anvil's Ring some decades ago by the family who owned/ran "By Hammer and Hand" studios on air tooling in the shall shop...I wish I had copies of that. I believe the father passed some years ago and I do not know if they are still in business. I assume not. Ric

What foundation do you have under yours? My clients like free as well...its a common discussion. Ric

John, I can't speak for Mike, but for me its billet breakdown and exotic alloys. I am torn between a large press and a hammer...each has its uses and issues. Currently I have a 3B Nazel and a 48 ton press...I have maxed both out on past jobs. The jobs got done, but with a needless series of heats and extra "work" which I did not care for. I have designed tooling to take best advantage of the machines I have, or so I think, but one can not substitute for raw power. Sure smaller die contact and push the top end of heat, but that has issues as well. I am moving toward stainless more and more and will begin serious exploration of titanium this year as well. My interaction with both leads in one direction...power to the work piece. Couple this with an interest in exploring closed die work and I see only one path. I'll put together that 140 ton forging press in a few months and see if my math is right (it never is ...so..) as to what is required for the sizes I wish to work. If not then I'll work toward the next jump in size. The other factor is that tools are cheap relative to what prices were asked in the past and if one is moving toward larger work then now may be the time to buy....of course money is tight in many sectors as well so... Mike, It appears that Schroeder's site is password protected...assuming he is the sculpture maker I located with the google search. Do you have contact information/location etc? I know of a 1250NB several hundred miles away from me, but from what you folk who own them have to say it may need some work to run. I like tools, but more on the using end than the making it go side. Ric

I can see a use for that as well....just did something this afternoon which would have gone faster with that. What amount of power does it use? Will it impart full tonnage at 1" and 12"? Have any photos of what you do with it or maybe a video? I'd like to see it working. RIc

Here is a photo of a 500 ton off a machinery sales site: I am not all too sure how the drive works...it may be the screw shaft is attached to the motor or the screw shaft IS the motor shaft with the motor being the large cylinder on the top. Maybe. Ric

Finn, I have 400 amp single phase to the shop..they charged me for it and did not really want to put that in. There is a 250 CFM compressor near me. Would that power a 750 weight do you think? Trailer mounted. Ric add reads "quincy diesel air compreessor nice shape works like new . This was a former WPS unit and has very little use" $4400

This may explain my accounting irregularities over the years. Grant what are the functional differences between the style of press you have and the style without the large rotating disks? It seems that the "weingarten" brand has a different drive mechanism. Ric

The local crane guy can pick 20,000..more if he borrows another crane. The local ship yards (Bay Ship in Sturgeon Bay) have metal buildings 30x30 with cable and lift hooks so they can lift the entire thing up and place it around a work area...I thought about the same for an "out" building. I figure (cost aside ..if such a thing can be done) that if I can not pick it up with my hands it really does not matter what it weighs as I will use a lifting device anyway. Being able to pick straight up is a good thing. My Nazel and rolling mill had to come in like a tetras puzzle and I have no plans to move them ever again...and they are tiny by some standards for tooling..only being 13,000 pounds each. At any rate..a 5B looks like the tool for me.....maybe I'll get the same deal your friend did...I have some pennies. Ric

Say...looks like I can make a quick $200 here. Grant, I just completed a new bottom swage for the Nazel 3B and gave her a test. It surely is not as carefree as I imagine a large friction press would be as it bounces a bit with the repeated blows, but it chewed the 8" section down on the 7 1/2" long die in short order. One heat easy with heat to spare and it is about 1/4 thick more or less with a good spread...think large leaf. BUT it is still work of a sort as I did move it a bit to keep it even and under the dies. I'd like it to see how the job could be done under a screw press. I have no idea if the 100 ton is the ticket or something larger....again..I have nothing to judge it by as my 48 ton hydraulic is slow and the 3B is a different action. I imagine it is close though. Ric

It appears that I need a self contained then as I am limited to about 30HP here in the shop....I run a phase converter..I could tandem two converters and get juice for 60hp. True three phase at the road would be about $45,000 as the local power utility would charge me for each pole and all the wire for the 1/4 mile run...and the neighbor could hook up for free after that. Yes, I could run a generator, but in the long run the costs would work out better with a self contained I think. I had no concept of the breath for these. I was hoping I could run them with the exhaust after a good mexican meal, but....its not meant to be. John Larson...feel like building a 750 weight? I am constructing the frame for a 140 ton press over the next few months and I'll see what that can do once its done. It may chew the steel I need chewed and I'll cogitate on the big hammer. No free Lunch. Thank you all, Ric

No..the opposite..lay it down like a hotdog in a bun on a plate and then sit on it. Ric

Yes Michael and my chevy chevette in high school would have had some gitty-up with a 500 hp motor and a nitro injection, but it RAN on 1.4 L OHC gasoline I4 engine. Does yours require 375 or can it get by with 30 or 40 or 45cfm at 100psi? Ric

Hello All, I have not run the older utility hammers..only the self contained. Is there a chart that shows air CFM and PSI? Those of you who own or have operated the hammers..do you have a preference as to brand and why. I am thinking of the Niles-Bement and Chambersburg (Grant's Bell seems like something too rare to find another). Ric

I still look closely at my quench thanks for some reason Thomas....hoping they are looking back at me.....I wish the video taken that weekend had worked out..apparently the camera recorded nothing. I have a Phd electrical engineer down the street and he and I sat down to crunch the numbers on a capacitor discharge coil larger enough to weld 4" cube billets of layered materials...it came out to about the size of three of my shops and rather costly. There is a stone quarry two miles from me and I have thought about having them do some sheet metal forming for me in the pond they have on site...I may see if they are interested this Summer. I'd like to see 3/4 plate made to look like a Jiffy Pop. HOWEVER, I am still trying to see how much push various sized friction presses have and what size I would need for the work I wish to do. So if anyone has a lead on a larger press or knows someone with a good sized unit who is willing to talk to me..I will listen. Ric

I'll post a video this week on youtube for what I am looking to do and maybe that will help with the tonnage estimates. Ric

Rob, When I do an iron smelt I'll burn about 200 pounds in a day. The best price I have seen here in Wisconsin for lump charcoal is about $1 per pound in bags. Ric

John, What is the power requirement on that 5cwt hammer, hp,rpm? Got any shots of one complete in operation with motor and all. I have heard that circular pattern called "jeweling". Ric

That photo looks like a Yoder shot. I moved my 3B into place with a hilift and chains. The trucker got a ticket for overage so I know mine weights in at 13,400 frame and anvil...rather heavy for a 3B. The 3B anvil was simple with my small forkilft (now sold) as it was about 3,000-3,500 pounds. For a larger hammer I would need to place it beside the shop on its own foundation and crane it in place over the anvil and then put the building extension around it. The local ship yard has out buildings with "I" beam roof and pick points so a crane can lift the roof off or the entire building for moving..not a bad way to go if one plans to live through another move. If I will die with it in place then moving it is someone else's problem ;-) Never thought about extending the base for exchanging the wood. I used oak and it is well oiled now with dripping off the hammer and I put a steel band around it and plastic/tar beneath where it contacts the concrete so I do not think it will rot or go bad any time soon. I looked at 4B Yoder had maybe 10 years ago now and it would not lift the tup when they turned it on..I passed on it. I see that have another listed, but no counterweight on the treadle and no dies and a bit steep on price. A 4B may work well for me, but a 5B would be better I think in the long run...again big can hit light, but light can never hit big. Since I have a 3B I thought going two larger is better than one. By self contained I mean not a utility hammer with external air..a two piece like the 3B I have or the "standard" larger frame over anvil is fine. Ric

I am not explaining it correctly... If you laid the round bar down under the dies working the 8" length just like your sample, but 8" in not just 2"..how thin could your press make the bar? No moving the billet, just push after push with the bar in one place. Ric