Warren Nakkela Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 How do you make square corners on sq. bar stock? Like on elements on ornamental scrollwork or on buggy and carriage irons? Do you sever the corner and weld a piece to make the corner square or do you upset while in a die? Warren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I actually like to cut and weld in a glut on anything over 1/2". I got that technique out of the CoSira book that came out of England years ago. Works really fast and leaves a good corner if the weld is good. I use it exclusively on the back leg of andirons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I actually like to cut and weld in a glut on anything over 1/2". I got that technique out of the CoSira book that came out of England years ago. Works really fast and leaves a good corner if the weld is good. I use it exclusively on the back leg of andirons. This is one of those counter intuitive things, especially if you're having trouble getting a good forge weld. It is however a whole lot less work and more efficient than upsetting material into the corner and forging it square. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 This is one of those counter intuitive things, especially if you're having trouble getting a good forge weld. It is however a whole lot less work and more efficient than upsetting material into the corner and forging it square. Frosty Ain't that the truth...I often had trouble with square corners using the upset method and one day, I was reading thru the CoSira book and decided to try it on some 1" square that was destined for a pair of andirons - it worked like a champ and I went "Doh!" for not having done it before. Only caution I can add is that you don't want to cut much more than about halfway through the bar or the opening gets too large for the glut to fill successfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 hum..... i might hafta try that... ive only made a very few andirons but ive aoways done the upset for the corner... it was what peter ross taught in one of his classes years ago...do you have a picture of one youve done? thanks for the new idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Might be hard to see but this pair was done the way I described. You can see a little bit of transition at the top of the rear leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Nice andiron, you can see the glut if you look closely. Welding a glut (I didn't know what it was called till a couple posts ago. ) to make a square corner is a method shown in almost every older smithing book I have. I just never tried it till I finally decided anything had to be easier than upsetting the corner. It's called UPSETTING :mad: for a reason. It's also good welding practice. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Could y'all elaborate on the glut technique a bit? Preparation and proceedure? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jura T Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Could y'all elaborate on the glut technique a bit? Check the page 90 from the COSIRA book:http://www.countryside.gov.uk/Images/BlacksmithscraftPart5_tcm2-18916.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Could y'all elaborate on the glut technique a bit? Preparation and proceedure? Thanks. The CoSira book has a great description - better than I can write, but the basic method is to cut part way (about 2/3 works for me) thru a bar and bend it to a 90, which gives you a good inside bend and a large void on the outside of the corner. You then take another bar that will fill the void with some amount of excess to allow hammering, and forge weld that into the outside corner. That's the executive summary...:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 In the Joseph Stokes books, he shows a reinforced square corner, for those times when you need added strength. Here's the link: Workshop Report on the integration of population education into programmes for rural youth in Zimbabwe That technique is also listed in the CoSira book as a viable method to make strong corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Aspery Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 The example below uses 8-inches of 1/2-inch square bar. I like to use a pre-determined length of bar so that it can be measured again to see what happened to the stock after the corner has been made. Center punch the middle of the bar and heat about an inch or more either side of the mark. Clamp the bar in the vice with at least 1/2-inch between the side of the vice and the center-mark. The vices at the school have the edges rounded. Position a dog wrench on the other side of the mark and an equal distance away from the mark as the vice. Shown in Fig 1 Bend the bar away from you. The direction is important and will be mentioned later. Also, do not bend to 90-degrees yet. Bending to 90-degrees will cause cracking in the inside of the corner later during the upsetting process. Figures 2 and 3 show the bend and the angle. Grasp the free end of the bar with a pair of tongs and reach for a light hammer. A light hammer is used for light rapid blows. Certainly the process can be done with a heavy hammer, but the upset will be further into the bar than just the corner, something that you will have to rectify later. Start to straighten the curve of the bar on one side of the center-punch mark shown in fig 4. Do not let the centerline of your hammer migrate to the corner, in fact keep it above the inside edge of the other leg of the bar. Due to the natural arc of your hammer, material is pulled into the corner area. If you had bent the bar towards you initially, the arc of your hammer would pull the material away from the corner. Notice that the corner is not held tight up against vice as this could cause a galling of the material. Take another heat and clamp the other end in the vice to work on the second side. Unfortunately, you cannot see the center-punch mark as it is on the underside of the bar. However, you do have the flat side that you just forged as a guide. Shown in Figure 5. At this stage you should see a thickening of the stock at the corner. Go to the anvil and flatten the excess stock as shown in figure 6. Return to the vice and continue to work up the corner as before, until the corner is sharp. Only when the corner is nearly finished do you allow the corner to come to a right angle. Figures 7 and 8. The inside of the corner should be free from cracking as shown in figure 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 reading in the Woodwrights Shop by Roy Underhill under Blacksmithing he is making a "Spike Dog" to hold logs steady while being worked on ...think big staple. after he heats and bends at 90* he dips the short end for a couple of inches to cool it then slaps it against the anvil face to move the metal to the bend (upset) he says when enough metal has moved to finish it with your hammer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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