Flint Striker

[Mike Ameling]

well.... i did talk with the guy and strikers wernt all he had there ... i dont think these were the roman ones (i have a couple of those) the provenance was pretty good ... he had them as part of a collection of antiques from a single party he had hi graded the really good stuff and was selling the stuff he wasnt interested in keeping... the other items in collection fit the time pereod and had a original "feel" . Ive been checking out antiques for a long time and can generally spot scammers...also he wasnt asking a arm and a leg for um ... i do understand there are a lot of scammers out there tho and it is why i no longer collect old beads .. they are getting real good at ageing them to make um look old...anyway this stuff was the real thing as far as i could determine ...

Oh, I have no doubts about them being old - just from looking at the pictures. That ... old iron been in the ground a long time ... look. The C shaped strikers are the hardest to really judge the age of. That C shape crosses all the centuries from very early Roman times up to the present. But there are little ... differences ... that tend to set them apart by time periods. Of the several other shapes/styles he had in those pictures, they never were made/used past about the 5th century, possibly 6th - early Middle Ages. They just do not show up in the books and museums. And they were NEVER over here in North America - until a few years ago.

I've seen enough strikers form ALL time periods to have those in the pictures just ... scream ... Roman era flint strikers to me. So 1800 years old instead of 200 years old. And I do have the 4 known reference books on flint strikers, plus around a dozen more with flint strikers covered in parts of them.

So either that seller changed their story/history, or the guy he got them from made the change and he "believed" it. Or the guy before him. And we are then back to that old story - "that's what the guy I got them from told me". The ... provenance ... of the whole collection would now be in question because of those few questionable items. And all because early American artifacts sell for more than early Roman artifacts.

Just my humble opinion. Take it as such.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands Edited May 15, 2009 by Mike Ameling
bad spellin

[Mike Ameling]

I have another question. I have 30' of cable off my line truck/crane truck when I was working in the oil field. My understanding is the cable is high carbon steel. I am planning on trying to build som knives and tomahawks from it but got thinking I might work as a flint striker. Any help please? also the cable is covered in crude and dirt wil that make a difference? how can I clean it up so I can use it?

The cable probably has enough carbon content in it.

But the question to ask is WHY use it to make a flint striker?

The reason to use cable to make a knife is to get that random "damascus" pattern in the finished knife blade. The several different steel alloys react differently when "etched" by acids - to show off those differences in the finished blade.

But is all the extra work of forge-welding that cable into a solid billet, and then forging it into a flint striker worth it?

Before you start heating/forging your cable, check out its construction. A lot of cable has a fiber/rope core. That will need to be removed before you can weld it up. Some people use gasoline, kerosene, or de-greasing fluid to clean the gunk off of cable. Others just "burn" it out - either in a wood fire or in their forge. And the rest of the "gunk" generally gets cleared out by the borax flux during the welding process.

But the best place to ask about this would be in the Knife Making part of the forum. Those guys have the experience with cable to share.

Mikey

[garbear]

Thanks Mike, I know or a fact the cable has no hemp core anything like that I cut it off because it was frayed back that far when I was operating the truck. The safty guy said they were just going to through away the cable so I asked to keep it planning to use it for a to cable to get my truck un stuck. As far as worth it I figure anytime I use a skill it just makes me better since I am a biginner. I would probly make one maybe 2 with it the rest would be for what I intended knives and hawks.

[CBrann]

Garbear is it galvanised?? very important, if it is or was (it would go the whole way through) the cable would have to soaked in acid to get rid of the zinc, or just get some fresh bare wire cable and work with that.

Cable welding is challenging, but satisfying. If your beginning try to stay within you skill range, and be ready to face disapointment.

Above all be safe and have fun!!

[garbear]

no the cable isn't galvinized. I am still learning since I am a beginer

[M. Demetrius]

Another (probably already mentioned) can is an empty shoe polish container. Anybody who uses them knows they close up plenty tight. A 3d nail makes about the right sized hole. I usually use old blue jeans (hey, that's about all I seem to have these days) for charcloth, and it works just fine. If you want to make a whole bunch, go to the paint store and buy a pint or quart empty metal paint can, and punch a 1/8" hole in the top.

Be sure to pack the can pretty full of cloth, or you'll open it to find mostly cotton ashes. Heh. Done that...with people watching, too. Funny now, but not so much then.

Any plant fiber cloth will work, but wool or any synthetics will not. If you're not sure, burn a little bit in a flame. If it smells like hair, don't use it. If it melts, it's not "natural", don't use it.

[M. Demetrius]

Mike said, "the original early Roman artifacts they actually are -"

Mike, do you have any pictures of Roman strikers from the 1st Cent BC to 1st Cent AD? If I'm going to go to the trouble to make some, might as well get them in the right neighborhood. Size is important, too. Most of the ones I've seen pix of that claim to be Roman are a thick striking edge, but a folded in handle, that looks more or less like the letter B. Are those the real deal?

Also, if you can't find good striking stones around, look in places like Panther Primitives for those "Indian arrowpoints". Many are made in Mexico in present times, and are clunky for real arrowpoints, but only cost a quarter or something like that. Make good sparks, and have sharp edges all around.

pantherprimitives.com, pg 125 of their current catalog. Nice folks, too.

[civilwarblacksmith]

The best thing that i have used for char so far, has been 100% cotton string. The thing that differs from flat cloth, is that you pull off what you need and since it is string there are alot of pockets to catch the spark when you bunch it up to strike.

Alot of people have mentioned the obvious metals to make striker; files, coil spring, etc. Any type of tool or spring steel will work.

[Mike Ameling]

Alot of people have mentioned the obvious metals to make striker; files, coil spring, etc. Any type of tool or spring steel will work.

Not all "tool" steels will work well for making a flint striker. The key point is the carbon content. When you mix in other metal alloys, it affects the heat-treating and how "available" the carbon is for the sparks. So you would need to test some chunks of any unknown or "other" tool steels to see if they will properly heat-treat and work for sparks with flint.

That's why lots of people try to stick with the plain carbon steel - of 70 points carbon or higher.

Roman striker shapes/sizes? I will see if I can scan in a pic of some typical ones. They vary quite a bit in size, thickness, and shapes. I've seen C shaped Roman strikers that were over 1/4 inch thick, and also some that were less than 1/16 inch thick. And over 5 inches long and under 2 inches long. So much depends upon what the original smith wanted to make that day. Plus, once you start looking at some, you start to see the little ... variances ... in the forging - like poor symmetry, uneven tapers, kinked bends, fudged chiseling of designs - all those normal little problem details.

Cotton or linen for charcloth seems to work best when it has been washed many many times. All that "wear" just seems to fluff up the threads/fibers so they catch a spark better. That's why old blue jeans and T shirts work so well.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

[Phil Patrick]

Wow,, I had no idea that this thread would grow to such size! There has been a lot of nice info posted here!!

[Mike Ameling]

Mike, do you have any pictures of Roman strikers from the 1st Cent BC to 1st

I posted a bunch of pics in my Gallery in the Album called Roman Flint Strikers. All but one pic are of originals.

I only had a few reproductions on hand at this time. I need to make more.


These are the "sled" style - because they resemble the profile of a dog sled. But these also are now being sold as original Colonial American era "musket" or "flintlock" combination tools/strikers. They claim that the tail is a screw driver, and the prow point was a vent pick.



These C shaped strikers show some of the variety. Form barely over and inch long to 4 inches in length. From 1/16 inch thick to over 1/4 inch thick. And the treatment of the ends varies also - from both ends left fairly straight to both ends having extra little curls on them. But most tend to have some sort of "peak" in the middle, and are made fairly symmetrical.



The Ovals vary quite a bit as well. The center opening on some is barely more than a slit, while other are open enough to stick your fingers through to hold them. And the thicknesses vary just like the C's.


Decorations can be very simple/plain, or they may have chiseled in decorations. The one P style I thought had been made from a file when I saw the cross hatching marks on it. But once cleaned up a bit more, those markings are only on one half of each side. Clearly just decoration. The one squared up oval striker has half-moon decorations chiseled/stamped into it.

And you can also see some of the ... wear pattern ... on the striking surface of some of those originals. They were used a LOT to wear in that "step" in the striking surface.

You can see how some of the C shaped strikers could easily be passed off as original Colonial American flint strikers. The shapes have not changed very much over all the centuries. But some of the "details" tend to point towards those early Roman times: the "peak" in the middle, and the symmetrical treatment of the ends - either each end left straight/pointed or each end with an extra little curl.

I really like the "coiled snakes" style - each end is drawn/tapered out and then folded back/forth on itself until the ends finally meet at the top. It's actually fairly hard to get them to come out even! You have to measure out from the center, and then make each bend the same on both sides - starting with both ends tapered out the same way and distance.

I've tested a bunch of mine out as flint strikers. They still work, and work well! I usually carry one of the P style or the dog sled style with single loop and prow point. I like the feel of carrying and using such an old tool to start my humble campfires.

So check out the pics in my Album in my Gallery. Lots of ... inspiration ... in there.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

p.s. That chain on the one P style was made out of full WELDED rings bent in half and then hooked through each other to for the chain - with the last one connected to the striker with a simple jump ring. Yeah, those tiny rings were WELDED!

[civilwarblacksmith]

Mike,

Your right on the tool steel issue, I guess I over catagorized tool steels to generally as all having plenty of carbon to do the job. Thanks for the catch.