CBrann Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Looking for non galvanized barbed wire for a pattern welding project. I don't want to deal with the zinc oxide/ metal poisoning hazard, and higher success rate with welding from cleaner starting point. Yes I know I can strip it off with hydrochloric acid, but I don't want that much acid around, and I have no safe storage area. I have been working with steel wire rope, but that was unsatisfying because the blades would twist during hardening and tempering. So I figure high carbon wire, forge welded, but not twisted would be cool looking and unique. feel free to email skitzo5@hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 There are some "high tensil barbwires out there that say they are "higher carbon"; but I would guess that they are really just medium carbon---higher than the low carbon common barbwire; but not of any level to make a knife from expecially if you will be welding it up. Sort of like RR spikes where a "HC" rr spike is at most at the very bottom border of medium carbon steel I've welded up very old very rusty barbwire for a basket hook and it was a pain in the rusted condition. Next time I will de-rust first. Only way to get it un-galvanized new might be to contact the manufacturer; but even then they might be using pregalvanized stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 You think that manufacturers start with galvanized stock? I thought it would be wound, and fabricated, then galvanized. I work with RR spikes a lot, and yes I have also read that HC stamped would only rate as a mid carbon for knives, but is really good for flex and tensile. And really unless you doing a super hard super strong tactical military knife I find that they hold a decent edge. Also some of the old RR spikes are made of puddle steel, so carbon tracings show up when you grind and polish. As I said I got the idea from a TV show I saw couple years ago, the guy on the show welded a big pile of barbed wire, to make the top plate of a garden gate. Trying to experiment with pattern welding various things, to see if I can come up with a unique product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Sneak out at night, find a rusty barb wire fence, pull the staples, roll up the wire, try to make it back to town before the sheriff shows up. Actually a couple months ago when we were doing some sod removal and leveling at the neighborhood playground we found a big roll of rusty barb wire that had been buried for about 20 years, too bad we tossed it in the dumpster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironrosefarms Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I'd think "de-rusting" barbwire would be as much a pain as de-galvanizing... but if you are interested in old barbwire, I suggest taking a drive out in the country, look for a farm with either a brand new fence (who will probably have the old rolled up and tossed in a holler) or a farm that looks like it has been out of commission for a few years... I have offered a few places to take down feed lots free of charge for the panels and gates... I have found some that have been happy to be able to mow it all down without the hassle of the old fence lines... sort of like anything else, ya don't know till ya ask... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Been thinking about liberating or acquiring some that way but the de-rusting thing gets me down, oh and the whole Illegal thing. I guess if I wanted the easy way I'd have a different hobby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironrosefarms Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Not illegal if you ask and have permission, those who I asked and said yes thought I was a fool for wanting the old junk, and I thought myself fortunate to have all that great stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Actually if you go ask a rancher or a farmer, he probably has some laying on the ground someplace that you could pick up for free. The derusting is easy if you check the blueprint on electrolysis derusting on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 House hold vinagar is good for removing rust. Use it all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryM Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Most of the barbed wire I have purchased lately is not galvanized. It has a cadmium coating much like the bolts you buy these days. So I think if look around you may be able to buy the same wire. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 BEWARE of Cadmium it is much more dangerous than metal galvanized with zinc. When heated Cadmium gives off extremely toxic fumes. 29CFR1910.146 OSHA Confined Space Regulations have a special cavaet about welding with cadmium containing rods in confined spaces that states: "Note: Some materials – hydrogen fluoride gas and cadmium vapor, for example – may produce immediate transient effects that, even if severe, may pass without medical attention, but are followed by sudden, possibly fatal collapse 12-72 hours after exposure. The victim "feels normal" from recovery from transient effects until collapse. Such materials in hazardous quantities are considered to be "immediately" dangerous to life or health." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 Cadmium is more toxic than zinc when it burns off. Is that the yellow/golden color that hardware has now? This is kind of frustrating, all I want is high carbon to do some pattern welding with, thought "How hard can this be?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 yes Cadmium coating is usually a yellow/gold color like what you see on some grade 8 bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 The older the wire the less likely it is to be anything but mild steel (or wrought iron for *old* wire!) Don't forget that getting thin material up to welding temps is a pretty good way to decarburize it too. We're awash in high carbon steel you just need to find it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 ThomasPowers--- Hadn't thought about the decarburization factor. I can get all the high carbon I want form junk yard or other places. I have 2 9' cutting edges off a snow plow. The whole point of this search was to get an interesting pattern, All I want is something that looks cool and is unique. It occurs to me that no body does his because its pointless/ implausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgtwister Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 you metioned high carbon wire all the barbed wire i know of is low carbon and zinc plated now if you find some old used the coating may be gone i now on the old pasture fence out back most of the barbed wire is rusted now its 30+ years old though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 OK interesting patterns I have seen done: lathe swarf, chainmail, the control cables from a lawnmower and Billy Merrit welding up almost any random things you might find... One trick is to do san mai so you don't have to worry about the carbon content of the junk you weld up for a pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryM Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 BEWARE of Cadmium it is much more dangerous than metal galvanized with zinc. When heated Cadmium gives off extremely toxic fumes. 29CFR1910.146 OSHA Confined Space Regulations have a special cavaet about welding with cadmium containing rods in confined spaces that states: "Note: Some materials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted November 26, 2008 Author Share Posted November 26, 2008 Larry, I figure it has other uses, just trying to find some. Orgtwister, I thought that if it said "High Tension" or something to that effect, that the alloy would be higher. Thomas, What is "san mai"? Havn't heard of that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 Japanese term for a common world wide historical method---3 layer sandwich small high carbon in the middle and beefier low carbon sides, cheaper when high carbon steel is expensive and lets you harden the edge more as the "soft" material helps keep it from breaking in use. Note the alloy being higher does not mean that it will be very high... Like "high Carbon" RR spikes that at *most* are at the lowest boundery of medium carbon---.3% C but are higher than the old regular spikes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgtwister Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 cbrann i looked up the wire at tractor supply and they are saying its low carbon and zinc plated as for it being a High Tension wire i know tenision wire used on chain link fence is real soft can cut it with wire cuters ant its at least 1/8 inch and it says tension on it so i guess that doesn't make it high carbon though there is a lot of highcarbon junk metal out there chains be the most i know of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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