Propane forge help, regarding smell

[NovaScotianNorse]

Okay, so I know what propane smells like (I know.. mercaptan). This isn't it. It smells like a kerosene lamp, or propane/kerosene heater.

Some details. I bought a 'latchkey' forge off Amazon, Simond Store brand. Retangular, so it's taller than it is wide.. two burner, top down venturi design (the specific kind that has a screw down flat cover ontop of the intake bell that has the jet nozzle). Has a back door I keep closed. I've had issues with this since I got it, always feeling like I had to open the air chokes all the way, just to get it to run right. I usually run it at about 6-7 psi (otherwise it would sputter the burners), but the chokes were always pretty solidly open. I would also get a fair amount of backpressure at times, and had been messing with having and not having kaowool around the burner intakes, sealing them off. I tried reducing the height of the intake bell, since it was so tall, moving the air intake closer to the propane jet (It's a brass nozzle with a 0.035" hole.. I checked and it lets the same size welding wire slide through, barely). This seemed to help a little, and I could keep the burners running pretty good. I'd also hear this hissing sound from the burners, which I assumed was the sound of the propane jet shooting propane and doing it's thing. Yes, I've TRIPLE checked all my connections, valves, etc with soapy water. There are no leaks.

Someone suggested I turn it on it's side, so that the burners were pointed horizontally instead of vertically, so I did. Well, right off the bat, I had to turn the propane down to about 3-4psi, and choke off a good portion of the air (otherwise it would shoot little balls of propane into the chamber and ignite it there), otherwise it was gonna sweat me out. The difference was night and day. 

This is where this new problem has started. The smell of 'kerosene'. I still hear the hissing noise from the jets, and if I put my noise right where the air intake choke is, and sniff hard, I can smell the mercaptan in the propane, but it's very faint. I assume it's a faint smell of the propane before it actually ignites in the tube. But everywhere else in the shop I smell that.. kerosene heater/lamp kind of smell.

My 'shop' is a 12'x20' "portable garage", with all 4 windows open, the main door fully open, and the back door unzipped on one side. I have a fan that blows along the ceiling, and one on the ground/floor.

Any thoughts? Normal? Dangerous? Should I just give up entirely? (not happening there, but I AM getting discouraged at doing more fiddling than forging).

I can take pictures/videos of the forge tomorrow if it helps. My flames are both nice blue, solid. At the new psi/air intake, the extend about halfway across the chamber. There was some swirling orange flames when I first lit it, but I assumed that was the piece of paper I used to light it not fully combusting and burning off in the forge.

Please let me know.

Thanks,

Nova

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard, glad to have you. This post seems awfully familiar, in fact it's almost word for word the same as another Nova Scotian a little while ago. From mercaptan in the first sentence on to sniffing the choke plate while it's burning. Same question about the kerosene smell with the same descriptions of what you use kerosene for. 

I'll give you the same answer. There is always an oil residue on steel products, some is more persistent than others. Plumbing pipe requires one of the persistent oils cutting threads. It will go away (burn out) after using it for a while.

 It's not operating properly because you've been trying to figure out how to tune it rather than reading about how in the Iforgeiron "Propane burner" section. Read through the titles till you find a subsection about problems tuning burners.

Here's a hint. Put the original jet back in it, open the choke plate up and set the regulator to the pressure it was set when you got it. First open it ALL THE WAY, then close it about 1/2 way. Light it and adjust till you have a neutral flame.

When you are trouble shooting anything change ONE thing at a time and observe the effect and make notes. Changing more than one variable at a time might work but you'll be searching with luck and worse you'll never know what adjustment did what so you will have to go through the same random walk search pattern the next time.

Frosty The Lucky.

[NovaScotianNorse]

Thanks for answering, Frosty, and glad to be here. Odd that it's almost the exact same.. I'm positive I've never posted about this before. Silly doppelganger I guess. I have been through here a few times checking for various answers, but never really gave it a full dig. I'm stubborn, it's a toxic trait of mine.

I'll go through that section with a fine toothed comb.

Some clarification though? So I still have the original jet in it (although they sent a replacement set with it, was tempted to replace them and start new even though the ones on it when I got it are only darkened, not damaged).

The regulator when I got the kit was fully 'closed' when I put the knob on it (aka, it was loose, and wouldn't allow any propane through). When you say to "open it up all the way, then half way", you mean the regulator? Or the air choke? Normally when I light, I light it at like 2psi with a little air, then increase both to get a flame on one burner, then open the valve and air to the second (second burner is connected THROUGH the first with a ball valve, they aren't two separate controls.. downside to a prefabbed burner and forge).. once the second burner is lit, I usually adjust propane and air until I got a steady flame. I always did have a yellow-ish flame plume around the blue flames when thr forge was initially upright. I don't get that now that it's on it's side.. just straight blue flames.

Another question..  should I put it back upright, so the burners are on top again? Or leave it on it's side, with the burners going horizontally?

This was the forge before I turned it on it's side. You can see the chokes on the burners are fully opened, and that's where they needed to be to run.. anything lower and she'd start sputtering and acting weird after a few minutes. Turning on it's side now allows me to choke off the air so much more than that and still keep a solid blue flame.

[Latticino]

Don't want to get in the middle of this as "too many cooks" and all, but I do have a few things to quickly mention:

1. Hopefully you removed the galvanized shield/hood you have in place in the pictures when you rotated the forge.  If it gets hot enough to be effective, it will get hot enough to burn off the galvanizing, which is toxic.
2. This NA type of burner can be very sensitive to backpressure issues.  You have closed off any chance of inducing secondary air, so only the induction at the inlet ventauri can power the system.  There is likely to be a minimum amount of opening that your door can close to
3. You may have started to get the forge up to a higher temperature than before and are starting to get burn offs of other volatiles from it's construction.  I'm not familiar with that model, so can't speculate
4. The burner head looks to be a little far into the forge.  It may be getting hot from extended firing, or even radiant heat after shut down.  What is it made of?

Just be very careful fooling around with unknown odors and forges that get up over 2,000 deg. F.  If you can't solve it yourself, get someone knowledgeable in too look at it.

[NovaScotianNorse]

Yeah, the galvanized hood shield came off just after those pictures. It was just a test to see if blocking off the exhaust from the forge doors from getting to the air intakes would make a difference, and it was the only piece of steel I had around that wasn't bar stock or 1/4" plate. It did help at the time, but I decided to turn the forge before building a new hood instead.

I was wondering about the position of the nozzle in the chamber. I tried backing it off a little when it was upright, but then my flame would turn more billowy and less jet-like. I assumed the little flare in the refractory at the ports was messing with the fuel/air mixing. I can back them off a little now, though, that it's on it's side. They never got red hot, but may have gotten hot enough to burn off anything. I'm not sure exactly what they're made of, but I might guess stainless. The whole tube goes straight down to the nozzle end, but the nozzle end is a like.. step up, not a smooth flare, it has a ring of small holes around the main hole at the end of the nozzle. I think the tubes are 1", the nozzle end is probably 1.5" (I'd have to pull them out to measure).

I've heard mixed answers about blocking off around the burner ports with kaowool. I tried without the kaowool when it was upright, but I would get flames up around the burners, so I put it back. Yes, I can close my doors until there's about an inch to an inch and half of a gap.. any further and she huffs out. The bricks are also like 1/4" from the actual front of the forge, so there's a gap at the sides and top as well (bricks are in a U channel). It leaves me enough room to move stock between them, only having to move them to get tongs through. I haven't tried with the doors closed on it's side yet.

 

It would make sense that the odor came from other volatiles, as yes.. the run on its side got it WAY hotter than before (I doubted before if I could have got to forge welding temps, now I think I could easily). You're right though, I don't plan to frig around too much with a smell I can't pinpoint. I do *try* to be safe. ADHD brain doesn't help, but I do try lol

[Mikey98118]

The burner flames in your photo look pretty good, so I would not think that they are your problem. However, it is a simple matter to remove them from the forge, and ignite them outside of it, to settle whether the odd odor is related to them, or from volatiles cooking off within the forge.

If you find that the odor is coming from the burners, then it is time to disassemble them, and check for oil inside of their mixing tubes.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

It's hard to tell from the picture, is the hose rated for propane? If not that may be where the odor is coming from, propane degrades (eats) regular hose not rated for it.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.~ Semper Paratus

[Frosty]

I'm embarrassed to admit I fell victim to taking a translation program at face value. It occurs to me your post seemed so similar to the one in the past because you share the same language, culture and are asking about the same things. Please accept my apology for making the assumption. 

I've looked at the Simond Store 2 burner forge that appears to be the same one you bought. Heck, I even watched a couple of their videos. Funny that all of them show severe dragon's breath. Dragon's breath is flame exiting the forge opening and represents propane that didn't burn IN the chamber doing work for you. It also represents Carbon Monoxide being generated and exhausted in your breathable air.

The text on their site doesn't say anything useful about the forge either, same same when they're talking about one of the other forges they sell. It's all written by someone in marketing, probably the same knucklehead who closed the choke plate on the rear burner for the videos so there is some nice dramatic swirling orange flames. 

Don't worry, we'll help get your burners tuned as well as reasonably possible. We're pretty good at that you know. 

Clarifications time. When I said open it all the way then closing it to half, I was violating my own trouble shooting rule and talking about both the choke plates on top of the burners AND the regulator. That's my bad, do not do that! 

Why are you only opening the regulator to 2 psi? I have no hands on experience with this brand so I have to operate on experience with burners I have used or watched in person. 

How these (Naturally Aspirated or NA) burners work is the jet of propane gas flowing down the mixing tube causes a low pressure zone behind it which induces combustion air to enter the intake end of the burner. The two mix in the mixing tube (length of tube between the bras gas jet and exit/flame nozzle of the burner) Making sense so far?

The flame nozzle on the end of the mixing tube is popular and the type on yours is similar to what I have on mine. In truth NA burners can be made and tuned to not need one at all. The positive factor for using a flared or step burner nozzle is two fold, first it lowers pressure in the mixing tube which increases combustion air induction. The second benefit is slowing the flame velocity into the forge chamber. 

I don't know why so many burner nozzles made in the far east have small holes around them, they should NOT be necessary but being there means you need to tune for them. What they do is allow secondary combustion air to be introduced in the flare. Unfortunately this causes higher pressure in the mixing tube and reduces the induction of combustion air so it can't mix thoroughly. Time on the mixing tube is important because air and propane don't mix well without encouragement. I'll leave the why for later if you're interested let me know but not now, it's for later.

However this burner is designed to operate with that type flare so blocking the space around the mixing tube with refractory blanket blocks fresh air to holes in the flare so it draws exhaust or flame from the forge instead while reducing induction from the intake end of the burner. The holes in the burner flare need access to fresh air. So, remove the ceramic blanket from around the burners.

The reason there are flames coming up around the burners (call them Bad flames) is largely because you are using such low propane pressure. The flame velocity from the burner nozzles is so low it isn't inducing air into the forge around gaps between nozzle and refractory liner. Try turning up to 6psi minimum and see what it does to these bad flames. Do this while it's running and flames are exiting around the burners so you know #1 if this change works and #2 how much to turn it up, if it does. Make sense? One thing at a time. 

Another problem that really jumps out at me is how the exhaust gasses from the forge openings are almost directed up toward the burners. They need clean air to burn properly. I use a piece of plain 16 gage steel sheet over the openings on my too large shop forge. When I built NARB I mounted the burners so their intake ends are as far from the openings as possible. All that said, the burners intake ends being in the exhaust from the forge is why it works better laying on it's side. 

I'd seriously consider adapting the forge to burn on it's side though that WILL introduce different issues to solve. For now though, make the exhaust deflector wider than the forge and possibly with a shallow V bend to help deflect the exhaust to the side more. Or lay the forge on it's side and we'll adapt it.

Okay, step by step. Do this one burner at a time to simplify things. They WILL effect each other so you want to get them close to right individually, then match them together. Make sense? Front burner first.

1, turn the propane up to 6psi. Light it and observe what happens. Notes, take notes! What you did, how much and what happened. Yes? 

2 Open the choke plate gradually until the flame starts getting worse. You want pale blue and opaque. Too much air, (lean) and the flame will become darker blue and more transparent.

3. These burners will be LOUD a soft breathy sound is usually too rich, match the sound to the color of the flame. A Lean flame is sharper and higher pitched and it will be darker blue. 

4. If the flame wants to burn back up the mixing tube, turn up the psi. the flame velocity exiting the burner nozzle is too low. If that doesn't stop it open the choke a LITTLE AT A TIME. It might not be getting enough air to flow freely. Symptoms can be flame actually burning all the way back to the propane jet, sputtering, popping or whistling loudly. If the flame is burning back you WILL KNOW something is seriously wrong. It can be pretty scary don't panic, just turn the tank valve off and let it go out, it will take a few seconds it has to burn all the propane in the hose. Just step back and watch.

5. If the flame wants to jump off the nozzle turn the psi down a LITTLE until it stays put.

6. At this time the burner should be within it's psi operating range, maybe not ideal but close enough to start working with the choke plates. AGAIN!? you ask? Ayup, the first time was to get close enough to operate at all, now we adjust till we start seeing the flame we want.

Remember to observe the changes, with both eyes and ears and make the changes small, you don't want to adjust right past good to won't work. Yes?

7. you're trying to balance psi and combustion air so when you get close to what you like you'll be making very small adjustments to one then the other, sometimes back and forth. At this point it's like setting an old wrist watch so the minutes match the second hand. 

I'm starting to forget what I said earlier and stopping now so I don't confuse things more. I'll be more than happy to answer any questions. 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mikey98118]

53 minutes ago, Frosty said:

I don't know why so many burner nozzles made in the far east have small holes around them, they should NOT be necessary but being there means you need to tune for them.

I have contemplated this very thing for years, and have come up with two ideas concerning them; they were originally used on air/butane torch-heads. I think the reason is to greatly narrow the flame, for pinpoint heating.

I have also seen it used, occasionally, on air-propane torch head-heads, where it does not work worth beans. I think the difference is input gas pressure. Butane cylinder pressures are much lower than propane pressures at the same ambient heat levels.

Of coarse, I could be quite wrong in my assumptions...

[NovaScotianNorse]

On 9/19/2024 at 7:10 PM, Frosty said:

I'm embarrassed to admit I fell victim to taking a translation program at face value. It occurs to me your post seemed so similar to the one in the past because you share the same language, culture and are asking about the same things. Please accept my apology for making the assumption.

No worries whatsoever. Language differences don't help matters, and translation is never perfect. I'll try to keep it simplified for translation purposes.

 

Quote

I've looked at the Simond Store 2 burner forge that appears to be the same one you bought. Heck, I even watched a couple of their videos. Funny that all of them show severe dragon's breath. Dragon's breath is flame exiting the forge opening and represents propane that didn't burn IN the chamber doing work for you. It also represents Carbon Monoxide being generated and exhausted in your breathable air.

The text on their site doesn't say anything useful about the forge either, same same when they're talking about one of the other forges they sell. It's all written by someone in marketing, probably the same knucklehead who closed the choke plate on the rear burner for the videos so there is some nice dramatic swirling orange flames. 

Don't worry, we'll help get your burners tuned as well as reasonably possible. We're pretty good at that you know. 

Yeah, their info is nonexistent. And I did notice, while the forge was upright, that it had a LOT of dragon's breath that I couldn't avoid without making the burners huff, and it was always a yellowish breath, too. I could never get it any other colour. I have noticed though, that since it's on it's side, the dragon's breath is GREATLY reduced, and looks more like it would on anyone else's forge.

 

Quote

Clarifications time. When I said open it all the way then closing it to half, I was violating my own trouble shooting rule and talking about both the choke plates on top of the burners AND the regulator. That's my bad, do not do that! 

Why are you only opening the regulator to 2 psi? I have no hands on experience with this brand so I have to operate on experience with burners I have used or watched in person. 

How these (Naturally Aspirated or NA) burners work is the jet of propane gas flowing down the mixing tube causes a low pressure zone behind it which induces combustion air to enter the intake end of the burner. The two mix in the mixing tube (length of tube between the bras gas jet and exit/flame nozzle of the burner) Making sense so far?

Makes perfect sense. I do the 2 psi to light the first burner, with the choke just slightly open, because any higher and it created this giant burst of flames out the door, even with the choke closed off completely. If I did it with just 2psi, and a slight bit of air, it would light the first burner and give me a semi solid flame. I'd increase to about 6psi from there, open the choke on the other burner, and then the ball valve to give it gas. At this point I'd adjust air (with the forge upright, this meant just opening the chokes all the way). With the forge on it's side, I get less of a blast out the door lighting at higher psi.

 

Quote

The reason there are flames coming up around the burners (call them Bad flames) is largely because you are using such low propane pressure. The flame velocity from the burner nozzles is so low it isn't inducing air into the forge around gaps between nozzle and refractory liner. Try turning up to 6psi minimum and see what it does to these bad flames. Do this while it's running and flames are exiting around the burners so you know #1 if this change works and #2 how much to turn it up, if it does. Make sense? One thing at a time. 

Again, perfect sense. Without the kaowool, even at 6psi, it would sputter flames up around the burner tubes. This would mean I'd need even more pressure, to make sure the flames stay down in the chamber? I hear a lot of people say they run NA burners at higher PSIs than what I've even tried with this (highest I've put the regulator to is ~12psi). I've always run it roughly around 6 because with the chokes full open, it felt like changing PSI meant nothing, and did nothing. Maybe that was my problem.

 

Quote

I'd seriously consider adapting the forge to burn on it's side though that WILL introduce different issues to solve. For now though, make the exhaust deflector wider than the forge and possibly with a shallow V bend to help deflect the exhaust to the side more. Or lay the forge on it's side and we'll adapt it.

Okay, step by step. Do this one burner at a time to simplify things. They WILL effect each other so you want to get them close to right individually, then match them together. Make sense? Front burner first.

1, turn the propane up to 6psi. Light it and observe what happens. Notes, take notes! What you did, how much and what happened. Yes? 

2 Open the choke plate gradually until the flame starts getting worse. You want pale blue and opaque. Too much air, (lean) and the flame will become darker blue and more transparent.

3. These burners will be LOUD a soft breathy sound is usually too rich, match the sound to the color of the flame. A Lean flame is sharper and higher pitched and it will be darker blue. 

4. If the flame wants to burn back up the mixing tube, turn up the psi. the flame velocity exiting the burner nozzle is too low. If that doesn't stop it open the choke a LITTLE AT A TIME. It might not be getting enough air to flow freely. Symptoms can be flame actually burning all the way back to the propane jet, sputtering, popping or whistling loudly. If the flame is burning back you WILL KNOW something is seriously wrong. It can be pretty scary don't panic, just turn the tank valve off and let it go out, it will take a few seconds it has to burn all the propane in the hose. Just step back and watch.

5. If the flame wants to jump off the nozzle turn the psi down a LITTLE until it stays put.

6. At this time the burner should be within it's psi operating range, maybe not ideal but close enough to start working with the choke plates. AGAIN!? you ask? Ayup, the first time was to get close enough to operate at all, now we adjust till we start seeing the flame we want.

Remember to observe the changes, with both eyes and ears and make the changes small, you don't want to adjust right past good to won't work. Yes?

7. you're trying to balance psi and combustion air so when you get close to what you like you'll be making very small adjustments to one then the other, sometimes back and forth. At this point it's like setting an old wrist watch so the minutes match the second hand. 

I'm starting to forget what I said earlier and stopping now so I don't confuse things more. I'll be more than happy to answer any questions. 

Frosty The Lucky.

I think I'm going to adapt the forge to run on it's side. Since it's basically just a long rectangle, it just makes it wider now instead of taller. It will keep the burner intakes out of the exhaust from the forge, and it will also help me reduce scaling, since upright the forge only lets me put my steel directly under the burners. On it's side it puts my steel UNDER the flames of the burner, which hit the far wall halfway up. I think this will also make it easier during heat treating, to avoid hot spot issues.

Now, when I followed all those steps before.. at 6psi, lighting it would cause a big burst of flame out the door, but then settle into a big billowing orange flame, like a giant cigarette lighter upside down. The minute I open the choke TO ANY SETTING, the flame would go blue like in the pictures above. Changing the choke by any degree made no difference. Opening it all the way up, and keeping PSI to about 6psi gave me a good burn. If I closed off the chokes any, I usually had to very lightly nudge the propane down, but not even a full PSI. This is why I said I felt like the chokes had to be full open with no real benefit.

Changing PSI any only made a difference if I turned it down too low without closing off the chokes some. At lower than 6psi, I had to reduce the air going in, or it would start 'huffing'. The only time I had the whistling sound, or any sort of flame popping into the chamber before igniting was once the forge started getting up to temp. At that point, I'd have to increase PSI a little, to keep the flames from doing that. Changing air made no difference, unless it went down TOO low, and then it would give me a billowy flame.

I can retry these steps, though. I probably didn't follow this exact process and missed a step when I tried tuning before, so it wouldn't hurt to do it with the list infront of me. However, since I would prefer to adapt to run on it's side, are the steps the same? Or would tuning be different for being on it's side? I'd assume they'd be the same steps. Also, the kaowool around the burners.. still leave it out if it's running on it's side?

 

I took the burners out of the forge, to try a suggestion from up above about the smell. With the burners out of the forge running, there is no 'kerosene' smell like there was with them running in the forge. I could assume the smell then is from volatiles in the forge body that are being burned off due to it being on it's side now, and not upright (heat dispersion different now). The hose from what I'm to understand is rated for propane. It has markings on it indicating an LPG hose. I'll attach a picture. Actually, I'll attach a couple of pictures. The hose and markings. The very end of the burner nozzle, showing Frosty the little holes I mentioned in it. And then some pictures of the burners running. Air chokes were open about a half inch, PSI was set to 10.

 

Two videos of the burners outside of the forge. I'll put them back in later and go from there. This was to test the smell issue.

I do notice that while the initial flames are blue and solid, that there's a faint blue-ish yellow "plume" that extends out from around the solid flames. It's very hard to see, so that's why took video.

[Mikey98118]

I am familiar with the burner configuration, and this design usually makes a weak flame. Your burners are an exception to the rule, and I suspect that it is entirely do to their unusual flame retention nozzles.

[NovaScotianNorse]

Would these be improved any if I removed the end "plate" with all the holes? I can always cut and file to remove that whole "plate" that covers the end of the nozzle, basically making it the same inner diameter all the way down that nozzle, instead of ending with that hole configuration.. just one big hole basically. I have no problem modifying things to work better if need be..

I tried the burners in the forge last night, on it's side. NO kaowool around the burner ports. Following Frosty's steps above, lighting at 6psi with chokes closed wouldn't light with paper, it kept blowing it out. Using a small hand torch to light it, 6psi put out a big puff of flames that would have singed some hair if I wasn't expecting it from previous experience and used the long stemmed one. Lighting at low psi seems to light a pillowy fire I can turn up.

With no kaowool around the burners, ON IT'S SIDE, it won't let me close my firebrick doors. Before I could close to about half an inch or so. Like this if I close them more than part way, I get flames out around the burner ports. Now, the forge does have a back door for forging long stock, but I keep it pulled close. Should I have this cracked slightly? I don't forge long stock atm, so I've kept it close to avoid dragon's breath out the back of the forge.

 

Edited September 22 by Mod30
Remove excessive quote.

[NovaScotianNorse]

Darn it.. I thought I was editing that first reply, but it posted as a new one. I'm removing what was typed above.

 

I could get solid flames on both burners at about 6-10 psi, depending on where I adjusted the air to, but I was able to get both burners to burn a consistently light blue.. although the back burner started quite green for awhile it got up to temp more, than it turned more blue. I noticed on it's side it was WAY more responsive to choke and gas changes, whereas upright it barely did much except respond to gas changes.

Should I put the kaowool back around the burner ports?

 

The smell was gone entirely when I ran it last night. I was cautious and was ready to shut down if I noticed anything odd, but it smelled just like a gas forge would, or what I know them to smell like. Also,I just want to confirm that the sound of the propane jets shooting into the tubes is normal. It's like a hissing noise but more resonating, so I know it's in the tubes (plus like I said I've triple checked all connections).

 

Edited September 22 by NovaScotianNorse
Me being dumb

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

The edit feature is very limited on time to edit. If you start another post just after the one you tried to edit, the software will combine the new with the older post.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.~ Semper Paratus

[Frosty]

Okay, forget about the holes in the burner nozzle they don't have enough effect on how it works to do anything about. 

These, NA, burners will have a pretty flat performance curve. Meaning the fuel air ratio should change very little as propane pressure changes. Typically it will induce more air as the psi rises, though not much. My T burner has a very flat induction curve once tuned changing psi doesn't change anything enough to adjust.

Tune your burners and use the locking wingnut on the choke plates so they can NOT move.

It's hard to see flame characteristics against a white background in bright light. I think I can see the orange at the ends of the flames, tertiary flames and they don't look bad. Videos don't help at all, good still pics tell us as much or more than videos. I didn't watch yours, I saw all I was going to in the stills.

The 7th. picture shows those burner flares with the ring of holes in the end have restricted the fuel air flow to close to the mixing tube dia. From here it looks like they aren't helping anything. I believe these nozzles were originally intended for a blown burner and designed to provide a long narrow flame. Heck, there's a really good chance they're causing the huffing at low psi. 

We're going to have to ignore what the nozzle ends do instead of what they actually do. We'll have to tune as best we can in spite of them.

I hope you've been keeping notes on psi and choke positions. Stop closing them to light the burner, of course its going to blow long fluttery yellow flames, without the combustion air there's just propane in the forge. What you need is the right fuel air ratio (F:A ratio) when you light the burner.

Set the regulator at the psi you remember the burners working best. Write it down in your notes so you don't have to rely on memory. Yes? Before you light it open the choke to where you remember it working best. Maybe measure how far and write it down. When you're making these kinds of notes leave room to write your observations of changes, basic shape, color, etc. A couple lines at least. 

With your psi and chokes set like this light it and if it doesn't show a good flame, take a STILL pic of the flame and one of the choke position and post it here. On a shorter post please just tell us the psi, pics of the gage aren't helpful. Not for me anyway, I think in psi, not bar, I can look at a conversion chart either way to translate to what I understand. It'll save you the hassle of having to run the conversions and best of all we won't be working with multiple conversion errors. 

For now don't mess with the pressure, we'll tune it with the choke plates unless the flame is out of tuning range. 

I wish I could answer everything but the posts are getting too long, with too many quotes and I'm too easily confused. I survived a traumatic brain injury (TBI) maybe 13 years ago, I'm not clear on dates. I'll be better able to help you tune your burners taking the steps I'm familiar with.

Trouble shooting rule #1. change ONE thing at a time and see what happens.

So, no more changing pressure and choke. That turns logical trouble shooting into guesswork.

Sorry, I tend to write a lot more than necessary. We'll both need to work on that eh? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I noted in one of the pictures the hose is rated for propane (LPG) so it's good to go. As for the kaowool around the burners, I would leave it out, many burners require or like some secondary air. I know ours does and the choke on our burner is the same as yours. I have found the choke has almost no change in a forge.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.~ Semper Paratus

[Mikey98118]

10 hours ago, NovaScotianNorse said:

Would these be improved any if I removed the end "plate" with all the holes?

No, it would not be improved, if you remove that "end plate." All that would be true then, would be that it is a weak burner.

[Mikey98118]

To make this clear, your burner's design does not have a sufficiently large diameter in their openings to provide sufficient swirl in the incoming air; the ratio of intake diameter to mixing tube diameter should be a minimum of 2.5 to 1, and is best with a ratio of 3 to 1. There are two aspects of the burner which provides an acceptable flame. The end plate (choke) will, at just the right distance from the opening, provide added swirl. The second help is the ring of holes in the burner's flame retention nozzle. Neither nifty little gimmick is quite sufficient by itself; they are just enough, to do the trick, working together.

However, while your burners have adequate flames, they are not strong flames; that will impact what you can do with the burners. My advice would be to remove the ceramic wool from the burner portals, and add sheet metal "washers" on your burner's mixing tubes, which can be moved back and forth on them, and held in place at the best distance from the portal openings, to limit--not stop--secondary air, which the burner flames induce into the forge.

As to the yellow streak in one burner's flame, and the red streak in the other burner's flame; I strongly suspect that they are cuased be oxidation of the stainless steel nozzles. I am pretty sure that there is nothing to be done about the streaks; on the other hand, they are not secondary or tertiary flames. In other words, they should be ignored.

What does this leave to see in the flames? I see complete combustion going on in single flame envelopes; that is as good as you're going to do. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

So, tweak the forge; not the burners.