TaylorM Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Hi everyone! I'm just getting into blacksmithing and I've been a silent peruser of the site for some time now, just figuring out how I should go about this fun new hobby. Don't expect fantastic start-to-finish photos. My wife will attest to the fact that I'm usually too giddy to start a project and I never take photos before and during, only after. I was going to go the gas forge route, but then while trying to figure out the refractory cement and all the debates around which one to use, and where to get it, and how to apply it, I thought "Hey, I have an old BBQ. I'll just make a solid fuel forge". I live in an area where charcoal is available everywhere but coke and coal are nowhere to be found, so that limited my fuel options. Considering I would be using charcoal, I then had to decide whether to go bottom blast or side blast. While I know side blast is generally recommended for charcoal forges, a couple factors made me go for the bottom blast. First off was dealing with ash. Considering I was starting out with a kettle-style BBQ, I figured it would be easier to build in an ash dump underneath rather than trying to trench it out to the side. Secondly, a side blast would have required a water-cooled tuyere (at least if I'm going to do this properly). My workshop doesn't currently have power and I didn't want to run a long extension cord to power a water pump every time I wanted to forge. Therefore, bottom blast it was! I went with one of those fat and fancy truck exhaust tips from Crappy Tire (the Canadian... I don't know... everything store) coming up through the base, with another 1.5 inch exhaust pipe welded into it on an upward angle. I was able to find a 4.5 inch cast iron grate, which I built into the firepot. For the blower, I went with a cheapy hand crank blower. Although this thing is nothing to brag about, it seems to be doing the job remarkably well. I barely have to turn it, maybe 1 revolution every 2-3 seconds, to get to forging temps. 1 crank per second and the thing is spitting up lovely blue flames. The lining is just a kitty litter/sand mixture rammed, dried and fired a la Frosty's recommendations (spider web and all). I'll probably end up cutting out a section of the side wall to allow for longer pieces to lay flat, but I'll see how everything works before I start breaking out the Sawzall. While doing one of my fires, I decided to test it out with a piece of 1/4 round bar. I was able to make an ugly little leaf-shaped object, but I'm still proud of the wee guy. I was only able to get into this hobby because I'm building my wife a greenhouse and I told her that if I got into blacksmithing I could decorate her greenhouse... so I better get good at making leaves or she'll be onto me and my shenanigans. Anyway, I just wanted to share my journey with you so far. I'm looking forward to being part of this community and continuing to learn from everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Welcome aboard from 7500' (2286m) in SE Wyoming. Glad to have you. It sounds like you are starting well. One comment: Years ago I tried using a cast iron floor grate as a tuyer but found that it eroded from the heat in my coal forge. I have found that a steel plate with holes drilled in it works better. Also, the steel is less likely to crack if it is quenched with water when you are putting out the fire than cast iron. I've been in Hamilton a number of times. Enjoyed the Hamilton Military Museum and the aircraft museum at the airport. My inlaws lived near Buffalo and it was often cheaper to fly into Toronto, rent a car, and drive around to Buffalo than to fly directly into Beffalo from Denver. So, we got to know that part of Ontario pretty well. Besides watching good Youtube videos I suggest getting some good beginning blacksmithing books (let us know if you want recommendations) and trying to find a blacksmithing group nearish you. You will learn much faster when working with other folk. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Welcome aboard Taylor, glad to have you. Charcoal so long as it isn't briquettes makes excellent forge fuel, been doing the job since humans started beating on those funny rocks that dent instead of chip. Check out the JABOD (Just A Box Of Dirt) forge, an old box some clayey dirt a bit of black iron pipe and you're good to go. There is NO need for a water jacked tuyere, use cheap black iron pipe so it doesn't hurt to replace when it burns out. The problem with using a bottom blast for charcoal is how wasteful of fuel it is. You must have enough distance between the air grate for all the oxygen to burn before reaching your iron or it WILL burn steel too. This means building a deep fire under your work. A side blast aims the air below and past the heart so you have to try to put your work into the oxidizing zone. Is your blower supposed to work laying on it's side like that? I don't know about new hand crank blowers but if you did that to my old Champion it'd pour oil on the floor then run dry. If you decide to give propane a try, give a shout, we'll coach you through the build. Just so some old curmudgeon doesn't use all caps telling you. You do NOT use refractory CEMENT in a propane forge, cement sticks things together like bricks in your fireplace, it is not intended to survive the extremely chemically active environment in a propane forge. Use a water setting, high alumina REFRACTORY. Not a cement, mortar, etc. All the Rutland being used is a perfect example of urban myth causing folks to use something really unsuited to the purpose. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 I hadn't noticed that your blower appears to be mounted on its side. I don't think I have ever seen a hand crank blower mounted in that orientation. I think it would be more ergonomic to be cranking in a vertical plane than a "stirring" motion like you would have to use now. Also, it appears that your blower is similar to the ones I have seen used on Forged in Fire in that it has a very short handle. I have wondered if they would work better with a longer handle. On FIF it appears that they have to crank very fast. How fast you have to crank for sufficient air may depend on the size of the fan and the gear ratio of the cranking mechanism. IIRC my blowers have around a 1:40 gear ratio. That is, the fan rotates 40 times for every full turn of the crank. GNM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Good Morning Taylor, Look up and go and visit John Newman, in Hamilton. Newman Forge and Pattern. John will connect you to Ontario Artists Blacksmith Association. There are a bunch of people very close to you. Don't be shy, they are regular people. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Good grief Neil, do all you Canadians discuss regularity in public like this? Thanks for the straight line, I needed a bit of a laugh today, the news stinks big icky ones! I don't think putting a longer handle on one of these blowers would do any good, you'd have to make just as many turns per second but in a larger circle. Watching FIF I been thinking I'd try shortening the handles until they got hard to turn. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorM Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 Hey guys, Thanks for the feedback! George, I'll keep that in mind about the grate. The wonderful part about building a bowl of dirt is that I'm not worried about playing around with stuff like this. If it doesn't work, no big deal, strip it down and try something else! One of the reasons I went with the cast iron grate was the thickness, as all the steel ones I could find were very thin. It seems like I'm probably better off fabricating my own. I'll try to keep an eye out for a metal plate to drill holes in. Do you have any recommendations for the thickness? Frosty, good point about the amount of fuel. I was thinking about that while I was firing it. I built the bowl a little oversized because I wanted to make sure all of the oxygen was burned up, then while firing it I thought "wow, that really holds a lot!" I'll probably keep it as is for now, but I want to build a permanent one outside in the future. I'll make that one a side blast with a trench Neil, I've seen the name Newman Forge around. I'll have to reach out to John! As for the blower, I've seen them mounted both upright and sideways. There doesn't seem to be anything leaking out... for now... but I'll keep an eye on that. I actually mounted it on it's side for ergonomic reasons, figuring it's easier to stir a pot than it is to crank in a vertical plane. I can just rest my hand and turn it with my fingers rather than lifting and lowering my arm with each crank. I don't have to turn it very fast. In fact, as per Frosty's point about the amount of fuel I'll burn through, I found that I have to turn it very slowly so I'm not ripping through the fuel in record time. I don't know what they were using on FIF, but the one I bought came in different sizes, from 80 watts to 200 watts (whatever that is supposed to mean I don't know why they can't just use CFM). I got the 200 watt one. Maybe they had the 80 watt which is why they had to crank it so fast. Either way, I didn't expect much from this Chinesium wonder, but so far I've been pleasantly surprised. I'm still keeping my eye out for a good one, but those would cost an arm, a leg and your firstborn child in the Hamilton area. I'll check out some antique stores up north (down south for you Frosty) once the weather warms up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 About how you mount it, horizontal or vertical crank. Try this, stand with your arms relaxed at your side and move them in a circle. UP and around and then around horizontally and decide which is more ergonomic. There is a good reason you never see blower crank a horizontally oriented. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Taylor, the last time I fabricated a tuyer for my rivet forge I used plate about 3/16-1/4" thick (I don't recall exactly) and drilled 1/4" holes, 3/8" holes might work as well and you have to drill fewer of them. My previous one lasted about 12-15 years. You might look at some of the on line auction sites like Hibid for auctions in the US and Canada. Try a search for "blacksmith" and for auctions within X distance from you. You can also search by state or province. I've seen some tempting items but haven't bid on anything because there isn't much I really "need." Recently, there was a 25# Little Giant power hammer about a 150 miles away but after much agonizing I didn't bid because I don't really have a way to transport it home and I would have had to pour a concrete base in my dirt floored shop. Ah well, maybe someday. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Good Morning Taylor Talk to John, he makes the best Fire-pots/Tuyere. It is not cheap, but you won't need another one, in your lifetime. You live in the same town as the best Blacksmith Tools. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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