How would you forge this double scroll wench?

[Jo_Bai]

As I have started to look into the ABANA LVL 2 course, I found this picture in the reference material:

 

Now I am wondering how to forge the middle one. So far I looked at the single wench from Mark Aspery ind this video:

 

I thought about upsetting the top and split it but can't wrap my head around it, how to make the bottom two legs without collapsing one of them. Please help me out.

[Frosty]

My computer says the original question is only 5 hours old and I've been watching to see who will answer for several days. 

Of course if my reply posts at the bottom of a long list or replies I'll know there's something hinky in the PetRoms.

Anybody?

Frosty the Lucky.

[Nobody Special]

I've only made single sided ones, but I would think there would be a couple of ways to go about it for a double. If you upset the leg, as above, you would have to do it with struck tools instead of on the anvil, or as noted, you would collapse the other legs.

It might be easier to do it by working with thicker stock than you end up with and cutting.  Take a narrow bar and use half-face blows to taper the handle end, below where the lower parts of the jaws should be.

A few inches from the far end, make two cuts in a V shape, with the bottom of the V towards you. You'd want to leave maybe half the thickness of the bar. Bend the two cut pieces out, as if you were making out decorative elements on a strap hinge, but instead, use fullering and upsetting to form the two lower legs.

Then in the remaining thick section at the end of the bar, split it down the middle for a little ways and then fold those two halves over into a T shape, and use the horn to shape the two upper legs. Use the horn to fuller the space in between the legs to a roughly even shape on each side. Then space it to the desired width on each side using a bit of square bar.

I may try this tomorrow, it sounds like a fun project.

[Jo_Bai]

6 hours ago, Frosty said:

My computer says the original question is only 5 hours old and I've been watching to see who will answer for several days. 

 

It is a new post and was truly only 5 hours old when you posted

 

3 hours ago, Nobody Special said:

I've only made single sided ones, but I would think there would be a couple of ways to go about it for a double. If you upset the leg, as above, you would have to do it with struck tools instead of on the anvil, or as noted, you would collapse the other legs.

I mostly forge alone, so a striker completely escaped my mind. That's the perfect reason to build a treadle hammer or get the wife in the shop

3 hours ago, Nobody Special said:

It might be easier to do it by working with thicker stock than you end up with and cutting.  Take a narrow bar and use half-face blows to taper the handle end, below where the lower parts of the jaws should be.

A few inches from the far end, make two cuts in a V shape, with the bottom of the V towards you. You'd want to leave maybe half the thickness of the bar. Bend the two cut pieces out, as if you were making out decorative elements on a strap hinge, but instead, use fullering and upsetting to form the two lower legs.

I searched some more and found this, that is also a great way, thanks

 

The last thing could be forge welding. As you said, it seems like a fun project

[Nobody Special]

Thought of another way this morning, probably even simpler. May need a wider bar.

Start as before, up to the part where the lower legs are formed, except make it more towards the end of the bar. Instead of splitting the end of the bar and folding, make two more cuts upward, parallell to the main bar, starting on the near side of the angled cuts you used to form the lower legs.

This should mean you've cut away two legs of a triangle with one "leg" still a part of the main bar. That's your upper fork. Then fold up the leg, clean out the spans between forks and size. I'm out getting tires, I'll see if I can draw it when I get home.

If you're bending in the vise, and it clamps evenly side to side (not all do) you can also use two pieces of round stock spaced a little, although it's not as sturdy and doesn't do well on heavy stock.

I'm also prone to cheating on scrolling jigs by using a Ford wrench, if it will fit. I've used them on everything from twists to water pumps, to toilet tank nuts, recently. I don't know why nobody sells them anymore.

[Frosty]

The time stamps are still out of order some by 10-12 hours. 

Anyway, I'd forge the double twisting wrench  by establishing the set down shoulders on both sides of the bar. Here I'd use the 1/2" drawing dies in my guillotine tool. Without it I'd use either a cross or straight pein on the anvil edge and isolate the tines from the wrench body. The tines on the end would be set down back from the end and eliminate the need to split the bar taper and bend. 

The set downs for the tines farther from the end would take two different isolation steps. First I'd mark them with a narrow rounded fuller or again in the guillotine. Then using square stock or that excellent square horn on your cooler than mine anvil start working the stock inside the forks down, leaving enough meat on the tines to forge them as in the video.

A 3/4" fork would need a 3/4" square bar on the anvil for support while the 1" one down and vise versa. 1" backing the 3/4" space and you'd need one in the vise to shape the inside tines.

Clear as mud? Thick mud? 

Basically do it like in the video but when you're working the second side back it with a square bar on the anvil, maybe put a bend in it for a hardy shank so it stays put. 

That's just an educated guess seeing as I've never forged one of these, I have a couple old monkey wrenches I ground rounded edges in the jaws so they don't mark the stock, I bend and scroll with.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[BillyBones]

I would do it the same way as the single jaw basically. Isolate an piece on the end that looks like an "H-"  (with out the space between the "H" and the "-") kind of. Then usng the vise to clamp it, rather than use the jaw as the "anvil" put it in the same direction as the jaw and use 2 pieces of stock that are the size you want as the "anvil". Using a flatter and a fuller draw out the back two pieces. You will need to hit one side a couple times then the other or you will push the mid section over your "anvils". Once you get them drawn out split the end, draw out those to side, then make upset corners like doing a cooking fork to get the "T" shape on the end. 

[Nobody Special]

I like Frosty's way, probably better than what I came up with, but it would be fun to try both. Ask three blacksmiths for the solution to a problem, get eight different answers. Here's the truly abysmal promised drawing of the steps I would take.