angiolino Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Hi, sorry to bother you, we would like to build a suspended monorail to accommodate the trolley of a chain hoist the portal structure would be anchored and fixed via bolt plates and pins vertically to a 25cm hollow brick wall, to the concrete floor on the ground. the upright columns and the cross beam must be sized. the measures would be: height 3.60 length 4.80 metres capacity 1000 kg. What material do you recommend using to make the structure? tubulars all beams rails, profiles? what elements to add as reinforcement gusset plates arrows counters or other Thank you, we look forward to suggestions and advice. Best regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Angiolino, mio amico. It's good to hear from you again, it's been too long. 1,000kg. is not that much weight for the type lift you want to build. Place the posts (vertical members) directly under the horizontal track beam and small stiffener on each connection to prevent it from moving inline with the track when you start or stop a load on the trolly. If you can place each end against opposing walls then anchoring the top of the posts to the walls will prevent movement. What type of steel posts you use isn't very important when lifting only 1000kg. Square tubing or wide flange type I beam are both more than strong enough. The drawings of the Vettor lift is a good design for your requirements. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Hmm... 1000 kg is 2204 pounds if my calculations are correct. I would want to have posts that exceed that weight by at least double the weight for safety's sake. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 The compressive strength of steel is very high. There are formulae on google of how to calculate the compressive point of failure for steel pipe. I didn't go through the calculations but I would bet that 4" (about 10 cm) pipe, either round or a heavy wall square would greatly exceed one metric ton. I think Irondragon meant that the compressive yield strength should be at least 2000 kg., not that the posts should weigh 2000 kg., either each or combined. For the I-beam cross piece I am sure that you can find formulae for the yield strength for the center of whatever span you will need. Again, I bet a 6 inch (150mm) would greatly exceed what you need. Find the formulas and calculate the minimum you need and then double the yeild strength numbers and then work backwards for the size. Then go up one standard dimension, for example if it comes out that you need 4.5 inches (11.43 cm) go up to the nex higher standard size available. It never hurts to over engineer andbuild something. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 It was late and I should have been clearer about how much weight the posts could hold, as George said compressive yield strength, without bending or having a catastrophic failure while supporting at least double the weight being lifted. I know folks that say if something will lift 1000 kg, I should be able to lift 1500kg with it. My brother (rest his soul) was like that. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angiolino Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 thanks for the suggestions sorry if I don't actively participate in the forum sorry for the rudeness however I take this opportunity to send you my sincere best wishes, returning to the structure on the one hand I can attach the column both to the floor and to the wall in perforated bricks 25 cm from the 'otherwise, maybe it would be better to set up a portal. To make the span of the beam safe, like a bridge, I think reinforcements like gussets or bolts or counters are needed. As for the measurements, I think you recommend a 10cm diameter tube with a thickness of exactly 3mm? for the cross rail I think a 160 mm h-shaped one, right? forgive me again if I don't actively participate in the forum thanks again for the precious suggestions if you have other information or solutions I invite you to collaborate thanks. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail's.?'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 No reason to apologize, you post when you have a question and many of us here live for helping folks when we can. I don't understand where you've been rude, you have to be one of the most polite and respectful people on Iforge. I have to say watching these 3 videos had me cringing almost all the way through at the lack of knowledge or shop skills they displayed for the world to see. Noe one using salvaged steel bothered to brush or grind the rust off BEFORE WELDING. This would've gotten them a failing grade in middle school, metal shop 1. The lowest level metal shop class offered when back then. The trolly in video 2 was once again made and welded from rusty steel, soaking it for a few hours in soda pop is pretty worthless. Iron phosphate is no better to weld than rusty steel and he didn't leave it in solution long enough to remove the rust anyway so he welded through the worst of both. The last video was a guy showing off his machine tools and not very well. You can buy a trolly kit for not much and have a better product you can just install. First, power brush the rust off the steel completely before you cut, drill or weld it. Better still use new but I understand the economy of using salvage, I use it myself. It just REQUIRES you take care and do things right. I won't even put rusty steel in my cut off saw let alone drill a hole. 160mm. is much smaller than I'd use, 8" or 200mm, would be my minimum wide flange for the trolly beam unless it were a very short span, say 5m or less. 200 or 250mm. would be much better than the plans you've posted. Same for the vertical posts 100mm. heavy wall would be bare minimum, I'd be much happier with 150mm. heavy wall but I could use 100mm. okay. Use thicker plate for the feet than shown in the videos, 6mm minimum, 8mm. is MUCH better. Weld the trolly beam to the posts being careful to keep everything square and remember to allow for the thickness of the feet when you cut the posts. A gusset on the inside of the post trolly beam joint is a good idea, again. 6mm. thick minimum, 10cm x 10cm to 15cm. x 15. cm. right triangles will be more than enough. Anyway, after welding the trolly beam to the posts and bolting the feet to the floor, stand it up and weld it to the feet. Standing the arch up is much easier than assembling it standing, you can make all the welds in the flat horizontal position for best results and you won't have to have helpers to hold the posts and beam while you weld them overhead. Standing an arch up can be done with a come along by yourself even. I'm not trying to be negative but I can't keep quiet when I see such poor fabrication practices as the first 2 videos. Doing it right is so easy and the results are so much better and I think of you as a friend. I wish I lived closer, I'd be thrilled to come help with the build. Be well brother, Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angiolino Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 Thanks for the valuable suggestions. I'm sorry again if I don't actively participate in the forum. Greetings ps, column 120 mm, crosspiece 200 mm did I understand correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 200mm. or larger is what I'd use for the trolly beam. I think 120mm. posts are my minimum. What I prefer is over built but I like things over built at least a little bit. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angiolino Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 I already bought the hoist and the trolley, the trolley is adjusted according to the section of the rail beam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Does it open up or do you have to roll it onto the end of the beam? Do you have enough information to start your build? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angiolino Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 opens by unscrewing the threaded pin I got the hoist and the trolley I have to get the beam and the columns then I have to make the plates and the gussets thanks for everything sorry for the inconvenience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 You are welcome as always Angiolino, you are never an inconvenience. Helping people with things is why many of us are members of Iforgeiron. I have one last suggestion though. I don't know if the second picture you show is how you plan to mount it but I'd hang the control directly from the trolly and motor. IF you are installing an electrically powered trolly. It it is all manual they you're good to go. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angiolino Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 no everything manual push electric we need an engineer's project it's not our case we need it as a convenience in the garage thanks sorry for the inconvenience see you next time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Sounds perfect then. It's nice to have an easy to load and unload. I look forward to your next post Angiolino. Maybe even a picture of of the trolly hoist when you get it installed. Be well Brother. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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