I need a new stand but...

[Jason L]

I'm using a cut off log that I fished out of the woods near my home at the moment. It was already close to the right size I just had to level with a chainsaw before I loaded it up. It's a bit punky and rotten in places but it keeps the anvil off the deck for the moment. On a side note, when I put it next to my forge it sank a little bit in the dirt after a couple of days and leans towards me which I didn't notice at first but as I used it the tilt got more pronounced. I actually like it that way now. Anyway, I'm running through ideas in my head of what kind of stand I want to make and it occurred to me that with the clay soil we have here, I could probably build a frame and fill it with our local dirt. After this stuff hardens it's pretty much like a brick. Now I'm not actually going to do this but I was wondering if it could be done. I'm leaning towards a metal tripod stand but curiosity really has me wondering about just building up the earth to make a stand out of. Has anybody ever seen it or tried it?

[anvil]

I prefer a wood stump. If its a permanent location, bury the stump about 2' into the ground. Trace the base on the top of the stump and inset it into the stump. inset it deep enough so you can put a couple of inches of fine sand in the recess. This makes it easy to level your anvil and deadens the sound. If the fit is tight, you won't need anything to hold your anvil secure.

[Jason L]

I'm not in a hurry and eventually I plan on it being permanent but for now it'll just be temporary so I'll keep using what I have till it rots then go grab another chunk of wood somewhere. I've got to build a shop first and that might take some time.

[Frosty]

The least you  need is a solid wood block, soft and punky won't do at all. It also sounds like you have a soil problem, clay becomes plastic when wet, that point is called it's "Plastic Limit" worse as it approaches it's plastic limit vibration causes "liquefaction." Liquefaction is what causes buildings to fall over or sink into the ground in earthquakes. Clay is very susceptible, you can lay a piece that's only a LITTLE soft in your palm and by tapping your wrist make it run like melted peanut butter.

Your block being punky only has a few sort of solid places in contact with the ground so the vibrations are magnified. 

You really need to do something about your soil, dry it may be like concrete but clay WILL absorb moisture until it all has the same content and as you've noted it's plastic in place.

The way we worked in saturated or plastic soils was to excavate it out and replace it with compactable gravel. Unfortunately a few inches won't do much good, the gravel will just be driven into the clay but if you keep laying gravel on the surface it will eventually stiffen up. Your shop will likely be a foot or two above original grade though. 

How do you feel about digging? You might get away with only digging out around your anvil stand but you'll want to extend a couple feet wider on all sides. Without being able to lay my eyes and hand on your soil I can only make educated guesses but I think excavating a hole about 4-5' in diameter 2' deep filled with D-1 gravel. You'll have to compact the gravel in "lifts" AKA layers about 6" at a time or it will NOT compact to full depth and WILL move when it's infiltrated with clay particles. Clay will act as a lubricant so the gravel particles can slip past each other easily.

I've been helping people with this type of problem for years. I worked for the state of AK geology section as a soils exploration driller for about 20 years and a year in the materials lab. It's no BS, I can help.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[George N. M.]

I agree about replacing a punky stump or log.  It robs energy from your hammer blows.  If there is something compressible between your anvil face and the planet it will absorb the energy which should be going to deforming the hot metal.

The problem with a dirt filled box is that it will still be a bit compressible.  Some medieval smiths used a stack of pieces of truf as an anvil base but that would not be ideal and is only making do with what you have available.  A solid log or a welded steel tripod seem to be the commonest anvil bases but anything solid of the correct height will work.  It is not uncommon to bolt or screw lengths of large dimension timber together to fabricate a stump.  The advantage with that technique is that it is easier to get the correct height than it is cuttin a "wild" stump or log.

If a tilted anvil works for you, fine.  I think I would find it annoying but I've been working on a level anvil for almost 45 years.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[anvil]

Lol, what George said.

[Jason L]

lol. It's not a big deal. I'm out of fuel so my forge won't be running for a while anyway and right now I'm just trying to learn how to work with the limitations from my accident. The tilt helps only because after crushing my elbow to powder now my tongs end up tilted when I hold them. As far as the eventual permanent stand goes, I'm leaning towards metal tripod. My last anvil stand was 2x12's bolted together and that worked pretty good but it eventually rotted out. Termites thought it was a tasty treat. If I do use wood, I'm going to see if one of my woodworker friends can get me a piece of cedar or cypress or something that is rot resistant and sink it in the ground a few feet. Speaking of ground, the loose soil is my fault. I dumped a load of sand there a few years ago to level a pool that is no longer there. The sand doesn't compact (I think I saw someone, maybe Frosty, talking about the difference between angular sand and rounded sand... I assume I have the latter) and the loamy soil I have in the back is pretty spongy anyway. I'll be bringing in something so build up the ground to level and keep rain from soaking in under the walls. For the moment, I'm waiting to restock fuel and stand until I get someplace dry to put everything. I'm hoping I can put up a pole barn type shed soon and add walls over time. I'm friends with the inspector so I have a little leeway but if the neighbors complain it won't do me any good and I'll have to tear it down so slow and steady, I hope, will win the race. By the by Frosty, I found one of those wrought iron bars although I think it's closer to 1/2" or 5/8" and apparently I hammered one end. I don't remember doing it, but oh well. 

[Frosty]

If you're out of fuel it's a grand time to do some digging. Think of it as therapy, your physical tyrant will be pleased. I know, I only shattered my elbow but it put a bit of a hitch in the works. 

Yeah, that'd be alluvial sand with (rounded particles). Your memory is a LOT better than mine but you were smart enough to not drop a tree on your head. Sounds like you won't have to do a lot of digging so that's good. If you rake the clay so it's loose you can mix the sand into it and make it less plastic, just don't get carried away or it'll get weird on you. (Oh, how do I count the ways? )

I'd use ground treated lumber rather than cypress, etc. it's denser and makes a more solid stand. Of course if you're one of those guys that likes taking things too far you could rig a vacuum chamber and use Cactus Juice to stabilize the bottom half or so. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Jason L]

At the moment the city is clearing land behind us for some reason so there are huge piles of red clay out there. I was thinking about just talking to some of my contacts and skimming off the piles. They are probably 10' high and some are probably 50' long or more so they probably wouldn't even notice a truckload or two going missing but I have friends at the courthouse so I'll ask them before I do anything.

I didn't have a tree fall on me but I did something really universally stupid. I stuck my arm through the boom of a forklift to grab a bag of deer feed that was slipping off and my hip hit the lever. Nearly scissored my arm off but I got lucky and got to keep it. I talked to my surgeon and asked if they had to amputate if I could take the bone home to make a knife handle out of. They didn't say no but I did get some strange looks. After three days they told me I was going to keep my arm and it was bittersweet. I would have loved that knife but the arm is infinitely more useful. 

As far as overdoing it with the log, I will most likely overdo it when it comes to the permanent one but I'll probably opt for metal instead of wood. I just think the pros outweigh the cons when it comes to a metal tripod and I don't want to have to replace a stump every few years.

I did have a thought though. I've got a board that someone gave me that's Ipe wood. Apparently it has the same fire rating as steel and it's rated for burial for like 50 years or something with no rot. Incredibly dense wood. It might be expensive but it would certainly last the rest of my life. I have seen people put a torch to it and it will burn eventually but it takes a while and doesn't have much of a structural effect on it. No idea where to find it though. I might talk to the guy who gave me that piece and see where he got it from.

[rich_c]

I am getting set for a new anvil stand to replace the one I made out of 4x4 fir posts earlier this year.  I am also going to make a stand for my post vise.  I bought the steel needed to make a tripod stand for both the anvil and vise, and have scheduled some time with a blacksmith who has the facilities and tools to help me with the build.  I honestly can not wait to get them built so I can get back to forging.

[anvil]

exciting times!