Noisy New Forge

[Lady Blue]

Hello, new member here, 

So we just built my 1st forge. It's a propane ribbon burner forge. It's a bit larger than some because I want to do armor making not just your typical knife and tool making. It's very beautiful however it does tend to make a lot of noise. I'm wondering if it is the mix of gas and air or if There's something else I can do to reduce the noise. There are actually 2 baffles in the system,  one in the pipe and one in the burner. (Pic of the one in the burner)

The  Body and doors and floor  have an  inch and a 1/2 of Kayo wool covered with an inch of  Refractory cement. There are 2 controls for the air. So even if I have the Vents  closed on the blower I can reduce the air even more. There is a valve on the pipe to allow  Adjustment of the propane seperate from the regulator.. the other issue we found is the metal on the front keeps bowing when hot, we have yet to attach the front door, and are trying to figure out what to do about this. 

Additionally

 

 

We will also add a retractable roll bar to the front and handle on the back door.  Thank you in advance for your help and feedback.

 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome from the Ozark mountains.

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Blue Lady, glad to have you. I'm sort of the wrong person to make suggestions. You've followed someone's plans pretty well, have you asked them?

What I see is a typical blown ribbon burner with WAY too high static pressure from the blower largely because the number of outlets doesn't match the flow rate. The flame blowing clear of the burner block is a clear indicator. The whistling roar as well. 

How far out of the doorways does the flame blow? We call that "dragon's breath." It's wasted fuel burning outside the forge. After watching a couple videos of "successful" ribbon burners I was inspired to make a naturally aspirated version. I call NARB (Naturally Aspirated Ribbon Burner).

I'm afraid I can't make yours work much better there are design flaws that are sort of legacy ad being passed down the line. Almost all folks tweaking and posting how tos are making them.

I lay out what and why I built NARB, I don't recall if the plans are in this post but there are a number of posts and threads on the subject.

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/48001-naturally-aspirated-ribbon-burner-photo-heavy/

Frosty The Lucky. 

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning LB,

You are in the heart of North West Blacksmith Association. Find a member in your town, I know there are members in Spokane and area.

It doesn't sound excessively noisy, it sounds normal. You also have to leave a space/area for the exhaust of the Forge to go. Air/fuel goes in, burnt air/fuel has to go out!  Let the Forge run for a while and allow the refractory to heat up and start working.

Welcome from the continent of Vancouver Island!!

Neil

[Lady Blue]

13 hours ago, Frosty said:

Welcome aboard Blue Lady, glad to have you. I'm sort of the wrong person to make suggestions. You've followed someone's plans pretty well, have you asked them?

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/48001-naturally-aspirated-ribbon-burner-photo-heavy/

Frosty The Lucky. 

Hi Frosty.... actually we didn't follow anyone specifically we created our own plans after looking at days of YouTube videos ... thanks for the feedback though. This pic is from this morning when we tested a peice of metal.

12 hours ago, swedefiddle said:

Good Morning LB,

It doesn't sound excessively noisy, it sounds normal. 

Neil

Hello Neil, 

Cool to know about dragon breath.  I don't have much flames comming out mostly heat after initial ignition.

I also didn't know about the NWBA. I'll look them up. Thank you.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Mod30
Trim quotes.

[JHCC]

5 hours ago, Lady Blue said:

actually we didn't follow anyone specifically we created our own plans after looking at days of YouTube videos

That may not have been the wisest idea. First of all, a lot of stuff on YouTube isn't worth the paper it's written on. Second, there are so many variables in burner performance that putting together the parts of a bunch of different designs ends up with something that -- as in this case -- doesn't work too well. Far and away the best thing to do is pick one proven design and follow it exactly. 

The forge itself looks very nice, and I hope you can get it working well with a proper burner.

Welcome to IFI! Keep us posted on how things go!

[Frosty]

5 hours ago, Lady Blue said:

actually we didn't follow anyone specifically we created our own plans after looking at days of YouTube videos ...

That's a really common mistake. As John says Youtube is mostly junk and some of it criminally dangerous. The ONLY qualification you need to be an internet "expert" is a connection and camera. The trap comes when the viewer doesn't know enough about the subject to sift the wheat from the chaff and there aren't many knowledgeable folk who can mix and match different designs without experimenting before putting it to use.

We all adopt ideas from each other it's a proper blacksmitherly tradition you know. 

Your steel fabrication looks to be pro grade. The forge shell is a clean design straight and square with good looking welds, SWEET. The stand is excellent too, with a number of useful options built in even if you didn't realize it at the time. Your pipe fitting is also excellent, it's all really well done.

You picked the wrong proportions for the forge liner reversed them in fact. Two 1" layers of rigidized 8lb. ceramic blanket refractory, I say Kaowool because it's what I have available and it's force of habit, my fingers know how to spell it. There are a number of equivalent ceramic blanket refractories. 

WHEW I almost started writing detailed build instructions AGAIN! They are available on Iforge in the gas forge section, Forges 101 is the most current.

Back on point. Once the blanket is installed, rigidized and cured you butter it again and apply about 3/8" hard castable refractory to the sides and roof. I like the floor around 1/2" thick but lots of guys are plenty happy with 3/8" and thinner walls and roof. This is called a "Flame Face," it's IN the flame. Make sense?

A final coat of a good kiln wash is another layer of armor to help your forge last longer. Forges, especially propane forges are wear items the liner WILL wear out.

So, 1.5" of blanket covered with 1" of hard refractory is very close to reversed where thicknesses are concerned. It's a popular bit of online urban myth I'm afraid.

There ARE times you want the added thermal mass of a thick flame face but unless you are heating lots of cold steel at a fast pace, a thick flame face just costs more in fuel and time. If you saw the pics of my NARB forge hot, it comes to high yellow heat in about 7 minutes and your burners are capable of a LOT more output than NARBs.

I'm not sure what to do about your burners though I'm thinking about things. We can get you more heat in your forge now. If you have any more blanket raise the floor. Hopefully you have some of the hard refractory left, you'll want it.

Cut a piece of blanket to fit the floor. If you don't have rigidizer you can mix some of your hard refractory really thin like milky water, butter the blanket and then dip the blanket in the refractory solution or paint it on. Be generous but not silly about it.

Then lay it wet in the bottom of your forge and let it set according to that refractory's directions. Then mix up a batch of refractory about thin tooth paste consistency and plaster your new floor 1/2" thick or less and make the transition between floor and walls a smooth curve. Not a big curve, maybe use a nickel to shape it, it helps the flame turn the corner without causing too much turbulence. Let it set and follow the cure directions.

The raised floor will reduce the volume of the forge so your burners will have less space to heat. Secondly the thinner flame face on the floor will come to heat much faster and the extra insulation will slow heat migration through the floor. 

That will HELP it's not a cure. 

How many cubic inches in volume is your forge. The chamber, outside dimensions don't mean anything for burner capacity. I don't recall if you said already.

We'll get it working. 

Frosty The Lucky.