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does this count as a NARB ?

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I have experimentet a little with putting an expansion chamber with a hole-plate in front of a venturi burner. the chamber is 2" in diameter and the hole plates are simply reused stainless meat grinder plates. I have tried different plates with different hole sizes and so far most worked pretty good. You get distinct small flames from each hole. This setup is a lot more stable at really low pressures (stable below 0.1 bar in a hot forge on 0.6mm nozzle), it is quieter and the heat is more even in the forge. Not sure if this is a "ribbon burner" or something else but I really like these. the yellow flame colour in the pictures is mostly because of dust. it went away after a while.

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It qualifies in my humble opinion, but regardless of what we call it, it does interest me. 

I'm curious about how long you've had it in use and if you've attempted to reach forge welding temperatures with it.

I'm wondering about back ignition using the metal plate instead of a thick refractory block, any issues with long term use?

The "Ribbon" in ribbon burner is in reference to the shape being long and narrow. What you made is more of a "Button" burner. NABB(?) Latticino has been using multiple orifice burners for decades and whatever he says it's actually called is what I'll call it. 

I'll be looking forward to hearing how well it works for lengths of time.  I'd be concerned that the metal plate you use for the orifices will get hot enough to cause ignition of the fuel air  mixture in the plenum. (expansion chamber)

Welcome to the multiple outlet burner maker club, glad to have you.:)

Frosty The Lucky.

  • Author

I have used this burner for about  3 months, about 3-6 hours a day with a lot of forgewelding. haven't had any problems with ignition in the plenum also no  damage from oxidation on the plate itself. here is a picture of one of the other burners with a homemade plate. It has been running for approximately 50-60 hrs including a lot of forgewelding and looks just as crappy as the day I made it.

20220209_134557.jpg

Good info.  Thanks for sharing.  I didn't really need another rabbit trail to run down, but now I've got one when I run out of things to do.  That looks like less effort than some of the NARBs I've built, so if it functions as well or better overall I'm on board.  I hope my latest one holds up for a while, but if it doesn't then I know what I'm going to try next.

Interesting, you said you have a few different plates that you made, wanna show them? I want to make something like this so I'm pretty intrigued.

  • 3 years later...
  • Author

little update 3 years later. These work very well. We have been making quite a lot of these burners with several blacksmiths here testing them. The stainless metal plate in the bottom gets used up sooner or later, on the forge we have used the most we changed it after about one and a half years of heavy use (full time workshop with 2 blacksmiths). Its not a lot of work to change tho as we buy the bottom plates pretty cheap ( meat grinder plates). So we just cut off the old one and weld on a new one in its place and weld the larger center hole shut. There is not really any problem with backfires as the plate gets cooled by the gas and the holes at 3 to 4 mm are too small (and thereby the gas speed to high) for the flame front to enter the expansion chamber. We found out tho that you cant put too large plates ( we use 54mm plates with 3mm holes and that works perfectly with a mike porter style 3/4" burner, we have tried 70mm but those backfire) as there will not be enough gas flow to keep the plate cooled sufficiently at low gas pressures with 0.6mm gas orifices. It might work with larger burner designs and a larger gas orifice tho.

They burn very stable at many different gas pressures and give a very good heat in the forge. I have forgewelded pretty large mild steel pieces in a single burner forge of this style. I much prefer this style over traditional venturi burners as they have many of the advantages of a ribbon burner: more quiet operation, short flames and more even heating without needing a fan. Unlike a forced air ribbon burner you also dont really have to adjust the air choke when changing gas pressure, it just draws more air with higher pressure like a normal venturi.

And to prove my point we even found a professional company making gas forges in germany with the same principle ( they use a reil style bruner design tho resulting in too little air being drawn in on the forges i have tried)

(Remove commercial link per TOS)...PM for link to site...angele shop 

Edited by Mod30
Remove @ name tag and live commercial link

Glad to hear it's working so well for you Donmu. As you've noted, lots of commercially made burners use a plate with holes in the outlet as a diffuser, some use a high temperature ceramic that lasts a long LONG time provided someone doesn't do something to break it.

Linear amplifiers are really old technology, even used as burners. If you have a gas range in your kitchen you'll find one in each burner. They've been around in one form or another since humans started using flammable gas. Longer actually versions have ventilated mines since we started mining deeper than a few feet.

Good to hear from you again, keep in touch please.

Frosty The Lucky.

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